Niche eCommerce Brand and Niche Marketing – Building a Breastfeeding, Maternity, and Motherhood Apparel Brand for Conservative Moms – Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe

Sushant Misra: Hey there entrepreneurs my name is Sushant and welcome to Trep Talks, this is the show where i interview successful entrepreneurs business executives and thought leaders and ask them questions about their business story and also dive deep into some of the strategies and tactics that they have used to start and grow their businesses and today i’m really excited to welcome Tsippi Gross. Tsippi is a former nuclear power engineer turned serial entrepreneur

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: sorry i think um that’s not me that’s not you no i i actually interviewed someone on my podcast who’s a former nuclear power engineer but that’s not me

Sushant Misra: okay that’s good but she is the founder of Havah Tribe which offers trendy comfortable apparel for the active mom which includes maternity and nursing friendly clothing Tsippi is also a business and life coach and is also the host of a podcast called The Greatness Tribe with Tsippi Gross and you can find that on apple podcast. And today i want to ask Tsippi a few questions about her startup story uh starting Havah tribe and some of the strategy strategies and tactics that she has used to grow her ecommerce business so um even after that a little bit of a mistake thanks thank you so much for joining Trep Talks today.

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: Really thank you so much for having me i you know what i’ve been doing this for a long time and i know that we all you know we have so much stuff going on there’s a lot of information so thanks for having me i’m really excited yeah

Sushant Misra: so i was doing research on your bio and and i found this and i was really impressed you know you know nuclear nuclear scientists turned entrepreneurs that’s so interesting

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: i actually interviewed a nuclear scientist a couple of weeks ago so that’s really funny but you know it must be a serendipitous way for us to have met each other yeah yeah um so yeah

Sushant Misra: so the first segment is called the story and in this segment um i want to ask you a few questions about your story your entrepreneurial story and and yeah learn about how you got started so uh why don’t you share a little bit about you know your motivation behind starting how Havah tribe like what is your startup story?

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: Yeah um okay so several years ago i actually had a baby and i realized that in my area you know like in my space there was not much clothing made for women who had babies who are looking to breastfeed there’s definitely i dress modestly and there is definitely not anything in the modest world and even you know in the just plain uh regular world there was not very much so i decided to just jump right into it um it was a decision that was also made i had a background of like you said like of being a business coach so i knew like how to start up i had started several businesses this was something new was exciting it was different and it was not anything i’ve ever done before so i was like let’s go do this

Sushant Misra: so what interested you about e-commerce specifically

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: so that’s a really good question before e-commerce i had done a lot of like selling just to one-off customers like in person like i had done a lot of catering and selling food products and i really was looking for ways to scale that’s not just like you know you make something you sell something i wanted something that you could do and reach a much larger audience but the real truth is i wasn’t actually interested in e-commerce i was just really passionate about creating this clothing for people because of it was a real need like i really felt that there was a community that needed to be served so that just led me down this rabbit hole i wasn’t specifically looking to start a business or to start e-commerce

Sushant Misra: so you identified a pain point because that is something that you’ve you felt um i mean i would have assumed that in the market you know the big stores and things like that um the maternity clothing would be you know everywhere because that’s that’s like a common need for women um what specifically was about you know the clothing that you are selling like what is uh what differentiates that from what else is available in the market?

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: yeah like what you said Sushant actually there’s a lot of maternity wear out there but once a woman is done having the baby there’s not very much knowledge or education or clothing given to a person you know at that stage so that’s like really kind of like an underserved community at this stage people are doing it more and more but when i was starting there was just not really anything so um women just you know who want to breastfeed their child they just need to have different kinds of clothing so that they have different accessibility especially out in public and i i didn’t find that so it’s it’s definitely a specific pain point like you said

Sushant Misra: okay uh now as a business owner you’re doing multiple things right now um so you have your e-commerce store you have your uh podcast that you do you have your business and uh you know coaching that you do how do you like what does your day look like and you’re also a mom and wife and everything else how do you balance everything and what does your general day like look like managing everything

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: yeah that’s a really great question too because i think that as especially as startup entrepreneurs we tend to just like get up in the morning and start just doing things because a lot of us are solopreneurs we have a lot on our plate so you know you might get up in the morning and start with your email funnels and you might go take inventory check on the shipping and things like that um over the course of the past several years i’ve really really outsourced most of everything in my e-commerce business including the email market funnels like i still like oversee everything but i’ve really like that as i would say has been one of my biggest strengths is like i just really enjoy like bringing different people onto the team so at this point my day is mostly filled doing the coaching and consulting that’s what i enjoy the very very most when i was just starting the havah tribe company i also was focused on what i enjoy the most which was a lot of the social media the design elements so i really try and encourage also my clients to keep your day as busy with the things that you really really love than you know just the random busy work and

Sushant Misra: and what are some of the things that you do as an entrepreneur as a person to to continue to grow as an entrepreneur like um you know for example reading books do you have coaches do you uh how do you continue to grow um being an entrepreneur

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: this is a really important point i think this is the most important point i think that this is something that is not taught to entrepreneurs when they start which is personal growth and development is what is going to set apart the successful people from the people who are just trying and kind of spinning their wheels and hustling anybody who takes time and really devotes to like what you said books and reading and learning and courses and coaching will go a lot a lot farther so yes i do a lot of that stuff do you want to know like specifics or you just want to know

Sushant Misra: well i know i know that i’m going to ask you about the book you know your book recommendations later on but do you have like coaches that you would work with or

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: oh yeah i i believe very much in working with coaches and i also believe in joining taking courses like i know that these days we are all like kind of inundated with courses but i also like would encourage everybody to join a course that’s not only only business related because we’re all taking like business course courses so like if you take something that’s like also something that’s more enjoyable like i think a lot like my angle really a lot of people are just want to learn about the area that they’re passionate that they’re that they’re working in so if you’re an e-commerce you might take a lot of courses in e-commerce and i think as and recommend you know in in the area like what you’ve talked about which is personal growth is take courses in things that you’re interested in that are not related to e-commerce or not related to business just to like grow as a person so that you bring so much more to the table than just that business knowledge so yes i use i read a lot of books yes i take courses in e-commerce and other platforms and also just in other things that i enjoy maybe painting uh maybe reading like i’ve been taking like a speed reading course recently because i want to be able to read and consume more information um i would do anything that like just like jogs by interest at the moment if that makes sense

Sushant Misra: yeah definitely i mean i i take courses also like the some yeah some of the course platforms like coursera and edx but um there are so many course platforms out there uh right now

Sushant Misra: now we’re going to move on to our next segment which is called the business and in this segment i’m going to ask you a few more questions uh about your business and some of the strategies and tactics that you’ve used to grow your business so with with Havah tribe um yeah you you mentioned that you know you created this segment that was underserved um was there an idea validation process like how did you how did you know that uh the pain point that you were experiencing was was not yours specifically but it was something that was out there also and very important because a lot of us you know just start pouring money into an idea that we just think is a good idea how do we know that it’s actually valid

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: yes i actually tested the market um i i interviewed about a hundred different women in my target demographic and then i just asked them like what are your pain points around this area and they were all like oh my gosh are you thinking of starting a company like this because if you are please sign me up so then i already knew that there were people interested and that got you know my juices flowing but after that i also put up a landing page because i needed to see if people are going to put down their money you know even if they think it’s a great idea will they pay for it so i put up a landing page i had some friends post about it in different various facebook groups for moms you know just letting putting the word out and within a couple of days we had sold out on all of my sample units i think i had about 1  Sushant Misra:  sample units so when i saw that they were selling and also when i got feedback from the people who had bought the units that were like oh my god i’ve been looking for this for so many years thank you so much like i love this what else do you sell then i kind of knew that that was the time to move forward

Sushant Misra: and this this landing page was more more of an e-commerce landing page like on a platform like shopify or

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: it was literally i was i was so technologically inept at the time it was a screenshot of my shopify store where i actually forgot to edit out the battery amount on top like how much my battery was like really low on my phone so like people like message me and they’re like hey like cute idea just like wanted to tell you that your is running really low and you can see it on your ad it’s kind of like not professional and i’m saying this like on purpose um so it was a screenshot of like you know whatever it was that i had on my shopify site that my friend’s husband like he had like a mailchimp account so he like knew how to make flyers and he like made some sort of link i don’t even know what it was anymore at this point it was some sort of like embed somewhere totally not professional and i’m saying that because like so many people like go crazy trying to make everything really really perfect from the outset and just you know spend so much time behind the scenes on the graphic design and stuff like that and like i really believe that you just need to get a proof of concept and see if it works so like with my horrible landing page that was not even a real landing page and very unprofessional we still like sold everything out and like started a whole business so that’s why i’m sharing that story yeah i think i think that’s a message that a lot of entrepreneurs who are just starting out need to listen because the first instinct is to be perfect like do everything perfectly and and that’s that’s a big mistake i think um starting a clothing business um how do you like you know if i if i today think that even if i have identified you know that there’s there’s a market for certain clothing and there’s a gap in the market yeah i wouldn’t know where to be like

Sushant Misra: can you share like some of those first steps some of those first decisions when you were starting out like to say you know i want to start a clothing but like where do you start

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: okay this is also a hilarious story and i’m so glad you asked because also i just want to give like everybody permission that like if you have a will there is a way okay i knew nothing about clothing my sister was super into clothing and i kind of was inspired by her and kind of thought like i could do it if she could do it but i knew nothing about clothing and especially the clothing that we have have like special features you have to open it a certain way it has to have a closure so i didn’t know what to do but i actually was taking steve chu’s course um if people know who he is he’s got a great like e-commerce you know platform where he teaches people how to start their own businesses so he taught us how to find alibaba you know vendors and suppliers and stuff like that that’s how i started i just went on to alibaba and started looking for different vendors that i thought you know had good readings and were responding well and stuff like that then i had videos that i made of myself like i would like cut clothing put like safety pins zippers on i would use tissue paper as layers just to show them and like i do not know why they took me seriously because i was showing like again it was like really really really homemade very unprofessional not at all you know what you would expect for a fashion designer my daughter would sometimes be the model and i would be like explaining the closures to the vendors like as she’s wearing like you know layers that we’re putting on her and you know putting makeshift snaps and stuff so it was really really a homemade project and it was like amazing to see that when it came when the products came they were amazing and we were like wow like you know we just we just kept at it i didn’t just i didn’t like you know i think like i could have been like okay i’m gonna first go to fashion school and then i’m going to take a couple of courses and wait a couple more years but i was like no this needs to be out in the marketplace now so like how can we make that happen and that’s that’s honestly how it happened and

Sushant Misra: and actually when when you were talking about it it reminded me of the story of spanx by sarah blakely and i think she she did something very very similar not you know just uh building the prototype and trying to see you know working with the manufacturer um so where um are were you working with these manufacturers within US or was it like someone overseas at the time it was all done overseas

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: that was i don’t live like in an area where there’s a lot of manufacturing in person so i was gonna have to start traveling anyways i decided to just take it over to china because they have the bandwidth and they’re you know very educated in this area already since then we have brought a lot of our manufacturing back to the us and it’s pretty much split now 50 50. and did you have to visit china in order i didn’t i actually had a much easier time working with china than i did in the us actually

Sushant Misra: i mean that’s a very interesting topic i’m always you know i want to bring some items from china like what and the biggest challenge that i face is like the the language barrier how do you overcome

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: yeah well you know as the prices of china go up it’s kind of like less and less worth it to work with china but the the people they have been doing this for so long especially people who are on these kind of e-commerce platforms or are with the time so they’re looking you know for american vendors or european you know like anybody who kind of knows the market they usually have one person on their team who’s really really good with english um i do know people who work with vendors who are not good with english and they just do a lot of like video communication like showing pictures and samples and models and sending stuff back and forth so it’s definitely you can do it um for sure you know it’s a lot easier than it seems

Sushant Misra: i have actually tried it and number one i think there’s a bit of a time difference that so you have to you have to work at night with them and the other thing a lot of times even when the person who speaks english like when you’re communicating sometimes things get lost in translation

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: oh definitely

Sushant Misra: did you have to go like through some um like did you go through multiple manufacturers and and and wet them out and find the the right one or did you just get lucky to you know you know um we did get fortunate with the first ones that we had because i was very careful about um i in general like to you know teach this to my clients you know all across the board but like if you trust your gut then oftentimes your gut is right i mean always it’s right so we did a bit more of an extensive vetting process before actually taking you know before we actually made our first samples and i really made sure that the people that i was working with were kind and they cared a lot about their customers and like you know i would ask them about their other customers and they wouldn’t show me the other customers work and i saw that the time was important to them timing and quality so that took a little bit longer you know just vetting them up front but i got a really good feeling about them and um then it was kind of it worked really well from there

Sushant Misra: and this was uh through alibaba

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: yeah that was new alibaba and and you looked at like the there i know in on alibaba there’s like different uh things that you look at to see if a vendor has worked with other people and things like that so you did look at those kind of statuses well there’s alibaba and then there’s also like panjiva so it i mean i didn’t know about panjiva at the time and i didn’t actually look until later to find out that a lot of my competitors actually used the same company the same factory that i was using in china i only found that out afterwards but at this point i feel like that’s a great tool so people could already find out you know who has the good quality and who people are already working with and start there already but um

Sushant Misra: i think now panjiva like if you have if you want to use it there’s like a big like at least some significant fee that you have to take

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: okay i haven’t used it in the past couple like past like six months or so so i don’t know so you you might be right about that yeah yeah i i know that i used it a few years ago and it was like you could use it but now i think you’re going to use it you have to pay upfront um

Sushant Misra: now before you you did use that you’re really great at you know um delegating and building a team so that you have you can open up your time could you please share a little bit you know how what your team looks like um is it all like virtual uh is it in us or other countries how do you actually build this team and you know what is your process like yeah um

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: so okay again again this is individual to each person but for me what worked the best for me was first having somebody come in and help me with actual packaging and shipping of orders i found that my time would be better used uh focusing on the business like growth strategy things like that than just sitting and packaging although sometimes i do enjoy doing stuff like that sending little notes to my customers things like that um so that was stage one for me and then stage two was really just finding specialists in each so in each area so like if i was going to use an e-commerce sorry an email marketing assistant i would find somebody who’s had experience with that i have i’ve i like to test things on myself because i give recommendations you know in my coaching company i have tested working with americans you know locally or working with people overseas and i’ve you know i found like it’s very split i i do find um like i’ve gotten so much good help online overseas like really really really caring people really wonderful really affordable so that’s kind of my area of choice you know for sure for starting entrepreneurs because it’s people who are like specializing whereas um locally i think people want like more of like a full-time kind of job does that make sense yeah yeah

Sushant Misra: and this is through upwork or

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: um so i love free up um steve chu recommends them i met them at a summit and i really really like working with them because they vet out their people in advance they only take one percent of the applicants and they stand behind their work so if there’s ever you know any issue so i have worked with upwork and fiverr and all those things but i have been much happier with free up  

Sushant Misra:okay i i never heard of that

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: oh they’re really great they used to spell their name with three e’s i believe it’s two now but you would have to look it up because it’s kind of like automated in my computer now okay

Sushant Misra: okay thanks for sharing that uh now we’re going to move on to our next segment which is called the digital and in this segment i want to ask you a few more questions about your digital strategy and your digital marketing strategy so um could you please share um out of all the different digital marketing channels what has worked really well for you uh in terms of like customer acquisition and also uh you know repeat sales

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe:for me specifically social media marketing has been the most effective specifically instagram and i would say that retargeting is by far our biggest uh you know cup of tea for sure so retargeting would be someone comes to your store uh they don’t buy the leave but then now you’re showing them um ads on facebook and and other uh sites yes yes for my company specifically for my company specifically getting leads from word of mouth influencers has been the most efficient and facebook ad follow-up has been fantastic you know we do also you know email follow-up i should not leave that out um but you know we really do a bunch of stuff we do sms marketing as well which is you can like have an app um through your we use shopify so there’s like sms and that also is amazing um but our you know our main sale source would be facebook retargeting ads and instagram ads and

Sushant Misra: and why do you think that is the case is you know that is it do you think that this is specific for your product type or do you think that this this can be uh work for other business laws

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: no i mean like i have seen a lot of businesses do really really well with facebook ads with like cold markets and stuff like that for me like people who know what our brand is that you know it’s it’s like a much more emotional connection so our like if somebody just finds us on facebook they tend not to um like purchase right away until it’s like a retargeting ad um and also so sorry the question is why does retargeting work better for us as opposed to

Sushant Misra: yeah is it is it that you know uh that a person could it be that a person got pregnant today let’s say it’s their first month and maybe they’re looking for the the clothing and this they found your site but then you know they’re not going to buy that clothing until until like the next three years okay is is that the reason or

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: no honestly uh people who find out about us when they’re pregnant like generally don’t tend to think about us very much they’re like oh yeah for nurse like people don’t really think about that but once you have a baby and you’re like in pain and you like need help right now that’s kind of when you’re like looking so so like you know even um like i’ll even have neighbors who will be like after two years be like i just heard about your company and i’m like really she’s like well yeah i just had a baby and i’m like oh okay because like we’ve been doing this for a while already but yeah people tend to look for it like when they’re facing the problem and we do have some people that like know about in advance but um yeah

Sushant Misra: and do you so so does that mean that you know once a person has done their pregnancy um they’re they’re not going of course you know if they’re not pregnant they’re not going to buy a com like a as a repeat customer they’re not going to come to your store and buy that kind of clothing again or or do you have other products or other clothing that that that can be sold later on also

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: right okay that’s great um so okay firstly we do tend to sell to a more religious crowd and religious people do tend to have more children and so we did you know we were definitely doing that up front because we did want to retain that relationship with them so yes they’re definitely repeat customers we have recently had a lot of demand from people who are like hey i’m done having a baby i don’t necessarily need breastfeeding clothes but i know you i like you i like the quality and the fit what do you have for me so we’ve just started doing some stuff that’s completely not nursing friendly it’s just regular plain old clothes

Sushant Misra: so that’s a very interesting point you said that your customer is more religious um do you find that it’s like do you know that you know 80 90 percent of your customers who are buying from you are these religious people and and are the or do you also find that there are actually other people who who are like the general public let’s say uh also buy your clothing

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: mostly religious women actually and that’s why also like word of mouth and influencer marketing and like specific very very targeted marketing has worked really well for us we sell a more modest pr we’re like extremely niche like if you thought breastfeeding was niche like we are modest breastfeeding niche like where so that’s like as specific as it comes but you know so for anybody who’s like kind of scared to niche down like you can do it

Sushant Misra: well wow that’s really interesting um um so i guess i guess that would be one of the reasons why any of the marketing that you’re doing like on facebook and these kind of things like that would be really really targeted and and it’s easy easy to easy to find these people like when you go on facebook ads like you’re able to uh pinpoint the your specific niche very very deeply

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: so so again um our facebook ads are mostly targeted at re like retargeting people so we don’t necessarily do a lot of cold market we did in the past and we really just found that our conversion rate was not as high as if we put that same money into influencer marketing so that is what i really really focus on i know that’s like you know different than most companies but that’s really the truth so we really really focus our ads on like people who have been to the site people or look alike audiences to people who have been to the site and i don’t spend as much time as i used to a couple of years ago trying to find that specific market on facebook because i just know what works better for us

Sushant Misra: okay um and i i know that you have started a facebook community now uh what is the purpose behind that and how does that work what is the is there a business objective to that

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: no there’s no business objective to that this really just goes hand in hand with our business our business serves women who are at a very vulnerable time in their lives there’s not much out there in terms of support for women who are just they just had a baby people are really tired uh people are you know women are trying to um understand their bodies like their bodies look different than they did and they kind of feel really pressured from the western world to lose all this weight and yet they’re like exhausted and trying to take care of a new baby there’s just not you know people have a lot of issues with breastfeeding what should they be eating when do you start feeding you know there’s just a lot of stuff that comes up so we have a community that’s just geared for those people for a very specific time in their life and that’s just kind of like i felt that that was just a natural part of my business like that’s what i want my business to do in the world is help people at a specific time so it does not we don’t monetize that group

Sushant Misra: okay uh so now we’re going to move on to our final segment which is called rapid fire and in this segment i’m going to ask you quick a few quick questions and uh please try to answer them maybe in a few words or a couple of sentences so the first question is do you recommend any book for entrepreneurs or business uh executives in 2020 and why

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: yes um i really love this abundance book by john randolph price um just a different way of looking at money but my main thing would be like read something you love that’s not business related and just like develop who you are okay so and what is specifically about this book that you like okay this is just a different way of looking at money um understanding where money comes from and just like expanding your abundance mindset a lot of people are like trying to attract money but yet they are doing or thinking or feeling things that would actually repel money so i would say this is a great first step there’s other a lot of other books that you could be reading also like think and grow rich and things like that but just to expand your prosperity consciousness and even just to ask yourself like why do i want all this money like what am i trying to do and how to just attract it into your life okay um

Sushant Misra: an innovative product or idea in the current e-commerce retail or tech landscape that you’re excited about

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: okay i actually was going to answer this differently i don’t have a specific product in the tech e-commerce space but what i am really excited about that is happening in our industry is that people are focusing more on developing themselves and i believe that you as a person the more developed you are will bring the most to your business so i’m just really excited that this is becoming more and more widespread perfect

Sushant Misra: um a productivity tool or software that you recommend same

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: along the same lines i do not get stuck in the small details of like this or that because people can really get stuck like which platform should i use what should i you know which email marketing like i just think choose something that you like that other people like and just go with it everything has issues everything has also pros and like do not get focused and bogged down on those kinds of things so i know i’m like not answering your question directly no no

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: i mean the one thing that i really like about your approach is that you know you don’t want i mean you’re really an entrepreneur where you don’t you’re basically um getting other people who know these softwares or tools to use them rather than you getting into them and i think that’s that’s probably the best approach and

Sushant Misra: it’s also well it’s not even that it’s just like whatever you choose you can make it work for you like yes you can always get better but like people get so bogged down by like am i making they’ll research a certain software for six or seven days or it’s like you could have made a lot of money in that time so just choose something go with it if you need to switch later switch later like just don’t get stuck that’s what i’m trying to say um

Sushant Misra: a startup or business in e-commerce retail or tech that you think uh are doing great things so i again wouldn’t say in in the um

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: i would say i really like steve chu’s um whole entire like design and course i like the fact that he’s selling e-commerce things selling courses around it i really really enjoy that um i get inspired by it i learn about it and i also like that his approach is very very real about the entrepreneur themselves and what success looks like and how to grow as a person as well so that’s been very inspiring for me um

Sushant Misra: a peer entrepreneur a business person who inspires you i really like looking up to

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: james wedmore i really enjoy his approach um also again being open-minded to your who you are inside as a vehicle to the success that you draw into your life

Sushant Misra: best business advice that you have ever received or you would give to other entrepreneurs

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: do something that you really really love and do something that you feel comfortable about and i would say that your business success is a reflection of who you are as a person so like we’ve talked about before the more you develop yourself your mindset things that are holding you back the better you will do

Sushant Misra: now you’ve mentioned and this is the final question you mentioned a few times mindset what would what one mindset that you would recommend that maybe you have changed in yourself or you would recommend as something that other people can look into changing that and that can make a huge difference for them

Tsippi Gross of Havah Tribe: i would say be who you really are don’t look around you don’t look at other people don’t try to make other people happy be really really true to yourself and honest about what your skills are your passions like don’t live up to other people’s expectations do what really lights you up and what feels really authentic to you and you’ll go really far  Sushant Misra: perfect uh so those were all the questions i had uh Tsippi thank you so much for joining us today at trip talks i really enjoyed talking to you thanks for sharing your story and all the strategies and tactics um i definitely got to learn something new today so thanks again for joining us could you if you want to share your website your podcast link or please please go ahead okay thank you so much for having me this was really fun and you’re a great interviewer so thank you um people could check out our clothing collection at havatribe.com that’s spelled h-a-v-a-h-t-r-i-b-e dot com um for any information you know about me or my podcast you can go to my personal website it’s Tsippigross.com which i will spell out it’s t-s-i-p-p-i and g-r-o-s-s dot com the name of the podcast is the greatness tribe and come check us out perfect thank you thank you so much again for joining us today we really appreciate it thank you