The Exact Strategy Behind a Viral Product Brand – Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Hey there, entrepreneurs. My name is Sushant and welcome to Treptalks This is the show where I interview successful e-commerce entrepreneurs, business executives, and thought leaders, and ask them questions about their business stories and dive deep into some of those strategies and tactic that they have used.

To start and grow their businesses. And today I’m really excited to welcome Tim Swindle to the show. Tim is the co-founder of PaddleSmash. PaddleSmash is a fast growing outdoor game that combines elements of pickleball and round net into a fun, easy to learn backyard sport. And today I’m going to ask Tim a few questions about his entrepreneur journey and some of the strategies that he has used to grow his business.

Now before we dive into this interview, if you enjoy this content, please make sure to hit the like and subscribe button. And for more interviews like this, please visit at treptalks.com And with that, Tim, welcome and thank you so much for joining me today at Treptalks

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: Hi Sushant Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: No, really appreciate your time. Um, so let me ask you about a little bit about yourself. Uh, so I, I did a little bit of research and. Seems like you have been a serial entrepreneur, specifically in the toys industry. So maybe you can share a little bit about your background, um, some of the things that you’ve done in the past, and how did you come to this, uh, paddle smash, uh, idea.

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: Sure. So, uh, I was actually, uh, a software entrepreneur for, um, pr. Prior to getting into the toying game space, I had teamed up with some guys I went to University of Illinois with, and we were doing a sales software. And while doing that, uh, had the idea for this board game. That I came up with, um, it was called Utter Nonsense.

And this was just a game that we had been playing with friends and family for a number of years that, uh, was not a commercial item, it was just this thing that we had put together just on pieces of paper. And so I read an article about another, uh, big popular game called Cards Against Humanity. And they had an article in Inc.

Magazine that talked about kind of how they’d come to. Fruition and, and, and their rise and the roadmap that they took to get, uh, you know, to get where they were. And I was like, huh, that’s interesting. I think there’s a game that I have that one I just mentioned, that I think I could turn that into an actual product and take it to market.

So I pursued that as a nights and weekends project. It was bootstrapped. So I was kind of doing my day job of the software entrepreneur, which was a very different, um, you know, it was, it was, uh. Venture backed, burning in a lot of capital, running big teams and very stressful. And then I had this idea for a board game on the side, uh, and decided to launch it, um, kind of on my own and, uh, outta nowhere.

It ended up kind of taking off. Uh, it got picked up by Target here in the US and a number of other major retailers kind of right away. And um, so I was like doing that as a nice weekend. Doing my day job. Uh, and then ultimately we were able to sell the software company to LinkedIn. So that was good. And I decided with, uh, with the card game company, the board game company, and ultimately grew that, uh, to a few million dollars in revenue and a few different games.

And then, um, one of the bigger toying game companies, that’s a private equity backed company called. Uh, play Monster. They reached out about acquiring us, and I decided to sell that company as well. So, um, so with that, I kind of saw two very different styles of, uh, of, of building a company. And I definitely gravitated more towards the towing games.

Uh, you know, again, it was, it was bootstrapped. I was working for myself. Mostly in, um, uh, what I was doing was fun too, right? I mean, bringing games to life is a very rewarding, um, you know, uh, really rewarding for me. And, and so I like that idea of bringing fun to life. And, um, so yeah, so I’ve stuck with that and have since launched, you know, other products.

And the main one right now is, is Paddle. Smash, as you mentioned.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: I am very curious. So you started that business while you were running a software company. Was it that you were bored in your day job? You decided, you know, I’ll start this passion project on the side? Or was it just that you saw an opportunity and you just didn’t want to let it go?

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: More of the latter, I would say. Okay. And I, I don’t know, maybe I’m like glutton for punishment. I just, there’s things that. I think about a lot, and if I can’t shake it, I have to get it outta my head. And I just felt so strongly that the game that we had played was a winner, and I was like, the world needs to have this, and it would just drive me crazy if I didn’t bring it to life.

And so at least I could have said, all right, I tried. Whatever happens, happens, you know? Um, so yeah, it was, it was more, more of that. I just, I, I had to see it come to life.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Do you consider yourself more of like a born entrepreneur? Because it seems like, you know, you, I mean, you are ent, entrepreneurial, like you are, you, you see ideas and you, you want to bring them to life.

Mm-hmm. Do you have any thoughts on like yourself as, uh, someone who. If an entrepreneurial person works with someone who’s like just working at a corporate company or someone, like, what’s different about you?

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: Sure. You know, my dad was an entrepreneur. I mean, he worked for himself for most, most of his life.

Um, so I think I just saw that growing up and figured that’s maybe what you do. Um, I will, I will say, you know, my, my first, first thing I did when I, I was like probably 12 years old. I, I started a a, a golf teaching. Class, uh, and I would put up, you know, little, little cards, create little flyers and put ’em the local nine hole course that I lived near and, um, you know, offer up lessons to littler kids than me.

Um, so I, I started to get a little, a taste for it from a very young age, and my parents certainly like encouraged that. And I don’t know, I, I will say I don’t think I’m a good fit for kind of the corporate. Lifestyle. Um, I like doing lots of different things all day. Um, that’s part of being an entrepreneur.

It’s like some days I’ve got my sales hat on, my marketing hat, my uh, my production hat, my logistics hat, my accounting hat, um. My product development hat. So there’s just, you know, all these different things that you get to touch on a daily basis. Being an entrepreneur that I find a little bit more interesting than if I was just trying to go in and hammer phones as a salesperson all day at a, you know, at a corporate job.

But it’s not without its risks, obviously. And, you know, it’s not for everyone. And there’s, there’s, there’s good days. It’s very peaks and valleys. There’s a lot of peaks and valleys in being an entrepreneur. So, um. Yeah, to answer your question specifically, as far as like, whether it’s like you’re born with it or not, I know Mark Cuban believes pretty strongly, like, you either have it or you don’t.

And he was like, you know, don’t, don’t take an entrepreneurship class in college. Like if you have to take an entrepreneurship class, then you don’t have it.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Yeah.

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: And I don’t know, I don’t know if I agree with that or not, but I’ll just say for me personally, um, it seems to fit my personality well.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: I think, um.

The more I talk to entrepreneur, the more I believe that, you know, entrepreneurship is like some, a little bit mindset, a little bit, uh, skillset development. So some people get the mindset from like, you know, you being, uh, a child of an entrepreneur, so you know, that’s automatically passed down. Some people are kind of born with it and then.

You know, skillset is, you know, some of the business skills that you build, you know, maybe starting off small and then learning it over time. But I think in your case, it’s, it’s rare that I, I don’t know, uh, rare, but like, you’ve been successful in multiple different ventures. So I think that that has, uh, you know, some people do one thing, but to be able to do it again and again, I think, uh, that’s, that’s even rare.

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: Thank you. I don’t know, I, there’s, there’s things I’ve done that haven’t worked out, so, uh, I don’t just sit here and hit home runs.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: We’ll, we’ll talk about failures in a, in a little bit. Um, so, uh, talking about paddle smash, um. I did a little bit of a research and I found that this, the concept was developed by someone else.

Uh, but you took the prototype and you kind of commercialized it, you brought it to market. So can you talk a little bit about, uh, that story of, you know, why, why this idea kind of, uh, seemed interesting to you, and what was the process of bringing it to market?

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: Sure. So, uh, my business partner and I, Scott, he is a big pickleball player.

And Scott, by the way, how I know Scott is going back to my original board game. He owned a series of retail stores and he was the first retailer to carry my game. So that’s how Scott and I got to know each other. Uh, ultimately kind of went off and did our own thing, sold, you know, sold our companies irrespective independently, and we.

Just really liked working together and wanted to do something, uh, that we could work on, uh, yeah, as a, as a company. Like basically build a company together. And he’s really big into pickleball and he was like, you know, man, it’d be nice if we could kind of catch this trend that’s happening within pickleball, but do something that’s unique and different.

Um, kind of tangential to pickleball, but not just another paddle or ball or net or something. So we’d have this. Kind of brainstorming session and not two weeks later, we were introduced to this gentleman, Joe Bingham, who’s uh, an inventor. He’s a structural engineer by trade. And he’s also like a tinkerer.

He’s got some router and CNC machine in his garage and just likes to build stuff. And he has, he’s the father of seven kids. Uh, six of them are boys, and the whole family used to love playing spike ball. They are kind of over it now and the whole family now plays pickleball. And so he was like, ah, you know, I don’t have the money to build a pickleball court in my backyard.

Um, but could I come, kind of come combine those two concepts together? And so that’s what he did and he created a very rough prototype. Um, that was, you know, what is now paddle smash. And, um, he didn’t know what to do with it though. He had built this game, you know, tons of neighbors and friends, whatnot, enjoyed playing it, but he didn’t know what to do with it.

He was not an entrepreneur. And so, uh, we were introduced to him and, uh, once we saw it, we played with it. We took it to some pickleball courts to test it out, and we basically both agreed that this was something we wanted to pursue. So that’s what happened.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: And, um, in terms of intellectual property, like did you have to, when he shared the idea or the game with you, like, did you have to sign some sort of a non-disclosure agreement or like some sort, you know, where, where you can’t just take that idea, tweak it a little bit and create, take your own thing?

Because I understand that you have some sort of a, uh, revenue arrangement with the, with the creator of this game.

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: Sure. You know, we were introduced to like a pretty good mutual friend, so I think it was like a trustworthy introduction on his behalf. Um, so I’ve never asked him that, you know, if he would’ve otherwise made us, you know, sign an NDA.

Uh, I’m personally not a huge fan. They’re very hard to enforce, and it’s hard to prove, you know, if something was created, you know, before you oversaw it and whatnot. Um, so no, we did not sign an NDA, uh, he didn’t have any protection around it. Um, but that’s, you know, something that maybe he trusted us, uh, because yeah, we, we went and then pursued a patent, which we now had.

Um, so yeah, so the arrangement with. Just to kind of put a bow on that is, you know, he gets a royalty. So we basically like took the concept. He in return, gets a royalty. So every quarter he just gets a check. It’s like mailbox money for him. Mm-hmm. So it’s really nice. He’s, he’s happy, he’s very happy with his arrangement.

And um, so Scott and I then took what he had, which was like a very rough prototype and then had to go and really. Take it from the, I mean, start over from scratch, essentially, like we had the, the gist of what it was, but it was not, it was like 60 pounds. It wasn’t, um, portable. We had to recreate it so that it was like mass producible, lightweight, you know, retail ready and a price point that’s appealing.

So, you know, that was about a year long process of, uh, research and development and design to, to get it to a point where we could ultimately take it to market.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: And is that process, so I mean, somebody could have an initial idea of a product, but to bring it to market, like to, to, to go from that product, uh, prototype, uh, to like a functional product that you can sell in the market.

Is that process something that you did it yourself or did you hire like product designers, uh, people, uh, who maybe are expert in, in that kind of field? Like, what would your advice be for

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: others? It depends. It depends on the complexity of it. Um, so we just worked on a new one that we’re gonna be launching a new game that we’re launching next year.

Uh, it’s kind of like this modern, uh, twist on corn hole, the game corn hole where you throw bags like it’s, it’s, I’ll just say it’s like a modern twist on that. That one, we were able to, to kinda do ourselves. There wasn’t really a lot of like, um, engineering involved, but for paddle smash there was, so it’s a injection molded plastic base.

Pretty complicated to figure that whole system out. Um, so long story short is yes, we did hire, uh, in industrial design and engineering firm, um, to help us take what he had of his rough prototype and turn it into what is now the retail version.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Now, uh, I mean games and board games industry is pretty interesting.

What have you learned about this industry and your customers? Um, is this something that people are still interested in, like board games or these kind of outdoor games, or is this something that comes and goes? It’s like a seasonal kind of a thing. Mm-hmm. Um, because especially. Especially with board games, I would assume like now that everybody has access to iPads and things like that, are people even worried about like, uh, physical board games?

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: Yeah, so I don’t know the exact stats ’cause I’m not currently really doing many board games, but it’s a growing market. I think there’s actually this kind of like. Resurgence of board games, kind of back to a simpler time, um, because people are learning about the risks of so much screen time and being on the phone and iPad and whatnot.

And so it’s this movement of going back to. Human interaction looking people in the eye, you know, not just bearing your head on your phone. And, and that’s, you know, board games are what, what, what provides that value? So, you know, so, so that’s answer that question. You know, for us in, in this game, paddle mesh in particular, it is very seasonal.

So, um, you know, it’s an outdoor game. So obviously you up in Canada, uh, your season is very short for when this can be played. I mean, we do have, we sell to a lot of schools and it can be played indoors as well, but it’s really intended to be more of like at the beach, at the park, you know, backyard, that type of a thing.

Um, so, you know, so, so it is, it’s a, it is a seasonal item and that’s something we’ve had to kind of get used to is that there’s these major peaks and valleys and, you know, how are we kind of ramping up when we need to with production, with inventory, with marketing, and then. Kind of cutting that off when it’s in the shoulder seasons and it’s quiet and we don’t want to be throwing good money after bad.

So yeah, that’s been a, that’s been a learning lesson for sure. Um, and then just in general, I would say it, it’s a cyclical, just like a lot of things, real estate, I don’t know, like kind of pick a market. Um, you know, it really exploded during COVID because people kind of had to be outside and doing things.

So our out outdoor market, um, for games was. Massive during, and we met, we were not there for it, maybe in a good way. Um, ’cause we launched after that. But, uh, so yeah, I think it, you know, then it kind of comes off of a little lull, which we’re maybe still in right now, but we, we don’t really know any different.

Um, you know, we’ve been seeing really good success year after year and we’re growing at a really nice clip. Um, but just kind of talking to some of our retail partners and whatnot, it just feels like, you know, the outdoor games market is a little, little bit of a lull right now, but. It, it always kind of comes back.

Um, uh, just, you know, like I said, like, like real estate or any, you know, market in particular.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Now, when you launched this business, um, can you talk a little bit about, you know, early traction? How did you launch it? Was it direct to consumer and did you see an instant, um, update from the market?

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: Our plan was to go direct to consumer initially.

So we did, we launched on Amazon, we launched on, you know, our website. So the plan was, you know, run, run social media, run ads, um, generate sales that way, and awareness that way. We did though reach out to some of the bigger retailers here in the us Dick’s Sporting Goods, shields, according Academy Sports, and just knowing their buying cycles were, they’re typically 12 to 18 months before you see the product in the stores.

And we were just like, ah, you know, we don’t wanna wait another year, let’s say, to potentially, you know, be pitching them. So while we were still basically at the prototype phase, um, we reached out kind of. Blindly or coldly on, on LinkedIn. And we were able to get in touch with some buyers and actually, um, get meetings with them.

And then much to our surprise, they ended up all taking in the item. So we, we did launch at retail very shortly after, you know, our direct to consumer launch.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: And do you find that you have better traction in retail, uh, brick and mortar versus like direct to consumer?

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: Direct to consumer is probably 80% of our sales.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Wow. Okay. Um,

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: yeah, I think it’s partly the, the price point. So we’re around $200 US dollars and. For the category that’s on the high side. So if you look at it compared to call, say spike ball, uh, that’s roughly $70. You know? So, um, we’re just kind of at a higher price point. It is what it is. We’ve tried to make it for less, but we can’t.

Um, so it’s just, it’s a couple big, very big pieces of plastic and this net system. And four paddles and two balls. So there’s a lot there. And once it’s. Uh, on, you know, once you un undo it and, and set it up properly, it looks like a $200 item. But I think maybe on the shelves it’s, it’s all folded up really nicely into like a kind of call, like a small briefcase.

Um, and so I think for the, the non-educated consumer, just seeing it on shelves and maybe just doesn’t do as well, whereas. Online, you know, we’ve got tons of videos and different things that people can see of how the game is played and whatnot, and I think that they’re able to understand the value a little bit more than folks can just seeing it on shelves.

Um, for now, I think once, you know, once we get going. There’s this idea within games that the games are naturally, uh, viral because in order for you to play Paddle, smash or any game, typically, uh, you have to have friends to play with. And so in our case, like if somebody buys one, they’re gonna take it to their backyard, barbecue or party or whatever and introduce it to their friends and teach them how to play.

And so, you know, our goal right now is to kind of get that viral flywheel effect going, and ultimately we think that will be our most powerful marketing channel.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Yeah. I mean, word of mouth is, yeah, is is the best for this one because to a certain extent, I guess you, the person has to see how the game is played.

It looks fun. How do you, uh, I mean, so I would think that social media would, would work well in terms of making it visual and, and fun. Um, do you, do you find that to be the case? Like a lot of people come to your website through your social media channels or is, are there other ways you’re marketing it?

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: I’d say that’s a big one for us. Yeah, we’ve gone viral now, I don’t know, a, a bunch of times, I mean, we’re probably north of 75 million views on social media. Um, so Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, uh, these are all just very powerful. Channels for us to post content and we’re, we’re fortunate that the game is very visual and it’s just a interesting thing to watch.

And so it catches people’s attention. It’s a new, it’s a new game, it’s a new concept. And, um, I think that, that, those are, those are, uh, characteristics that I think help us. And so yeah, we do, we, we invest in and, and lean in heavily to social media marketing.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Awesome. Can you talk a little bit about your, I know you briefly mentioned manufacturing and you know, there’s a plastic and, and all these things.

Can you talk a little bit about your manufacturing, um, processes and, and, uh, um, yeah, how do you, how do you bring it? Uh, is, is us your biggest market?

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: US is our biggest. We’re now in roughly 40 or 50 countries. We, uh, we manufacture, we did up until, uh, the terrorist took place. Uh, we met, we manufactured in China.

Uh, we have a world class fantastic manufacturing partner by the name of Longshore. Uh, they’ve been around for a long time in the toying game industry. And, um, they kind of saw the writing on the wall of what was happening. And so they got ahead of it a little bit and, and were able to open up a factory in Vietnam, which is where we now are doing our manufacturing.

So those units have just started coming across. So traditionally or historically, the game was manufactured in China. Now it’s gonna be Vietnam. And uh, we’ve looked at. Trying to build it in the US and Mexico. Uh, and it’s just not feasible. We just, we wouldn’t, uh, we wouldn’t be in business if we had to manufacture in the us

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: but tariff is now a global issue, right?

Like even if you make it in Mexico or I don’t know if Vietnam, are you still tariff or, yes,

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: we are, but it’s less.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Okay.

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: Yeah, so we kind of minimized, you know, we had looked at, actually we, we were close to going to India, um,

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: but even India is now

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: 50%. Yeah. Now they’re in the crosshairs. Right. And so, um, that would’ve been really bad if we ended up going to India.

So, yeah, it’s like, it’s tough, it’s tough environment right now for, for importers, you know, we. We don’t really know we’re safe. You know, it’s like we’ve, we made the, the move to go to Vietnam, not thinking that they would really be impacted and then they were too. So it feels like no, nowhere is safe, which makes it hard from a planning perspective.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Yeah. It almost seems like that’s the new reality, right? Like at least in this administration. Mm-hmm. I mean, who knows if the new administration comes and maybe keep everything status quo, but, uh, from a cost perspective, like. Making it in the US doesn’t, it’s, I mean, that’ll be even more expensive, right?

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: Yes. Yeah. Just, uh, we’ve looked at it and it just, it doesn’t, I mean, the pricing we got was more than our retail pricing.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Wow. Okay.

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: Yeah. Um, it’s not, it’s not feasible.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Yeah. I mean, there’s just not the infrastructure. Um. I know you were on Shark Tank, and I also saw that you had a lot of, a lot of other PR exposure as well.

Can you talk a little bit about, you know, it seems like you had a PR strategy, uh, or still have a PR strategy. Um, can you talk a little bit about how you were able to kind of get, uh, different PR exposure and maybe a little bit about your Shark Tank experience as well.

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: Sure. So with Shark Tank, uh, we were at a conference out in New Jersey for camps and Scott and I, when we go to these shows, we wear these kind of funny seventies style retro tennis retro, uh, outfits with like really short shorts and a headband.

So, I don’t know, we just try to have fun with it and. The, uh, the comments we kept getting were, you know, I was like, you guys are great. You gotta go on Shark Tank. And we were like, okay. Okay. And we, um, on the way home from that, I got an email from one of the producers asking us if we’d like to apply. And so we were like, well, this is interesting.

So we, we did, so we went through the application process and, um, so that was in, in Mar we launched in. October of 22. Then that was in March of 23. So like five months later they’d contacted us and then we went out to LA to shoot in June. And then that episode aired in October of 23. So pretty much a year from launch is when we aired on um, shark Tank.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Hmm.

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: And yeah, it was a great experience. We are grateful for it. Um. I don’t know who edited our episode, but I owe him a lot of thanks because we, uh, you know, they, they take, you know, you’re out there for 35 minutes roughly talking to the sharks, going through the whole pitch and. There was times where I’d say, we didn’t sound like we knew what we were talking about, or things didn’t maybe go as planned and they cut that all out.

Um, I mean, we did, we were very happy when we walked off the stage. We was like, alright. That went well. But certainly the, the, the editing team made us look very good. So I’m, I’m grateful. Um, and yeah, so that was awesome. Uh, we did a deal with Mark Cuban and Robert Kovich. As a, as you may have heard, a lot of deals that they get done as handshakes on air, and then you go through due diligence afterwards.

And that was the case with us and we ultimately decided that it wasn’t the right fit. So we actually didn’t go through with our deal. So, you know, we, we made the deal on air, but then it didn’t, you know, actually follow through after the fact. Um, but it was great because, you know, we were able to get the exposure of the show.

Uh, I think it goes out to like roughly 8 million people or something like that. And, um, you know, we certainly saw a massive spike in sales leading up, or, you know, as soon as it aired and, and afterwards and it continued to open up other doors. And so, you know, we’ve been on, you know, all of the, the morning shows, good Morning America, uh, you know, things like that.

Um, entertainment Tonight, I mean, we’ve been on quite a few shows. Uh, and it always helps just the fact that, you know, we had that Shark Tank airing. People could kind of like see us, see the product on tv, get a good idea for just how it’s, how it does. And then, you know, that gives them, I think, the comfort to wanna, you know, work with us as well.

So

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: yeah, I watched that Shark Tank episode as well, and it, it did come across as very fun and it was, uh, quite, uh, smooth, uh, the, the whole process, I guess, you know, the last. The last moments where you were talking to each other, you know, you put the pedal on your face, were you just saying, you know, let’s just do the deal and, and then we don’t have to.

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: That’s basically what we were, yeah, because we had a whole strategy involved. Like you more. Episodes air that got deals that don’t. And so we were just like, let’s go get a deal. That was our goal, and we kind of knew that if we didn’t really love the terms of it, you know, there would be the opportunity to, you know, not follow, follow through.

I mean, we didn’t, we wanted it to work, you know, I’ll say, but it was just the terms of the contract were so. Not in our favor. Um, but yeah, we do that. That was that little conversation where we’re like, should we do it? Should we not? Let’s just do it.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: But it’s such, it’s such a great opportunity for businesses, right?

Like it’s say you get so much exposure, uh, yes. For not just for the business, but for like, you know, other opening up, other opportunities and so forth. Plus, I’m, I’m sure like every time it, they air it, like even reruns you are, you probably get a boost from it.

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: You Right. I have nothing more to add. You’re right.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Um, can you talk a little bit about your, um, fulfillment, warehousing, fulfillment and shipping strategy? I know you were talking about the weight of the product, and that’s always an issue in the direct to consumer space. Mm-hmm. Um, how heavy is this item and like. Can you talk a little bit about your, you know, warehousing, fulfillment, shipping?

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: Yeah. So we. We do, we do work directly with Amazon, so a lot of our sales go through Amazon and we ship directly to the warehouses and then they kind of handle fulfillment for all of our Amazon orders. And then we have a warehouse and fulfillment partner, uh, Buskey Logistics. They’re fantastic. Uh, they have warehouses all over the country.

Ours specifically are in Northern California and southern Wisconsin, and we also have one with them in Canada, in Windsor. And so, yeah, so you know, we, for our, for our orders, for our retailers, um, for our direct to consumer orders through Shopify and whatnot. Um, those all get fed to the various warehouses and then they do fulfillment for us.

So our, our game for the main game is like 20 pounds shipping weight, and then it’s roughly 16 pounds once you take it outta the box and all of the packing material and everything. So the game itself in its case with the paddles and balls and everything is roughly 16 pounds. And then the shipping weight though is like 20 pounds.

Hmm. Um, so. That’s on the heavy side and the box is fairly big. Uh, roughly 32 inches by 20 inches by six inches. So it’s a big box and it’s expensive to ship. So yeah, that’s something that we’re always trying to struggle with a little bit, or we’re always trying to negotiate our rates, I should say.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Mm-hmm.

So let me ask you this, like, I know you said that you are now working on this different game to launch a different game. Um. Is this space, like, after doing all this work, I mean there’s so many different costs involved and of course, you know, there’s always risk with everything, tariff and all these things.

Uh, do you think that this is, it’s, it’s worth it to be in a product based toy, uh, business category where there’s, I’m sure there’s a lot of big players as well, and, um. Or was it better, like when you were in the software business, of course, you know, there’s much better profit margins. Like what are your thoughts about this, this product based business in general?

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: Yeah, I mean, certainly right now it’s tough. Uh, I would say, you know, just because of the tariffs, and that’s really the only reason that makes it tough in that regard. Um, you know, we’ve, we’ve basically seen, you know, a big chunk of our profits just now are being paid in taxes. So, um. That so you could make a recency bias claim that, you know, it is a tough one.

I could put a spin on that and say that’s gonna be tough. It’s gonna be tough for everyone. So, you know, from a competition standpoint, you know, I don’t think there’s gonna be a lot of new entrants in this space, or maybe people exiting the space. So it’s kind of like, hey, if you can stick around you, maybe you’re one of the few left standing.

Where now with software, especially with ai. Everyone and anyone, regardless if you have funding or not, can create software. Yeah. You know, and so I think from a competitive standpoint, you know, software has gotten way more competitive, um, than the space that we’re in and. Yeah, I mean, I, I lived it and you know, this, this is for me, you know, a, a better kind of lifestyle business.

I mean, I think with software, again, it’s, it’s trying to really hit that home run outta the park. And with what I do now, not only is it very fulfilling and fun. Um, but it’s financially rewarding. Um, and it’s something that I control, you know, along with Scott, of course, you know, my own destiny. Um, and I just find that to be a little bit harder to do.

If you’ve got a big board of directors and you’ve raised a bunch of capital and you have people that are telling you what to do, and that’s, you know, partly why I wanted to be an entrepreneur is that I wanna work for myself. And so, you know, as a largely boost, bootstrapped company like we are now. We have that flexibility and freedom, which we really value.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: No, that, that makes a lot of sense. And in a way, given that your product is large and, and all these things, it’s, it’s probably a competitive advantage for you because, you know, a regular person copycat, it’s just too to difficult to manage the whole thing. Like do you see. Other copycat businesses. I mean, even though I think you have patents and trademarks and things like this.

Mm-hmm. Do you see anyone else creating like a similar copycat product in the market on Amazon?

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: Yeah, we do. With success, you’re gonna get copycats. That’s just the way it goes. So, yeah, that’s the tough thing with patents is you can get them. They’re very expensive to get, and we do, we have a fantastic patent, but they’re really difficult to enforce and they’re expensive to enforce.

So if somebody wants to rip you off, and typically it’s firms that are kind of professional, rip-off artists and copycats. Um, and so we have one right now. They’ve taken ours. Kind of bastardized it and, and put a net as the bottom surface as opposed to our hard plastic, which of course makes it less expensive and lightweight, but the playing experience is.

Shitty, if I’m being honest, you know, so, but they make it look like ours and they’re piggybacking our success and you know, they’ve in turn come out with this cheap knockoff that doesn’t play as well. So, um, you know, there’s been some that we’ve been able to knock off that we’ve been able to take down very quickly.

Um. There’s others that we have not, but we’re currently in legal battles, um, with some, some one, one big group in particular. And, uh, we’ll see. I think we feel pretty good about it and we will hopefully, uh, by the end of the year we’ll have some clarity on if we were able to get them to go away.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: I mean, it’s, it’s so sad that like you put so much work and effort into something and then somebody comes and just copies you and makes it a little bit.

Cheaper.

Track 1: Yeah.

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: That’s why when you said about, you know, the NDAs, I laugh a little bit, you know, I get that a lot of like, people want us to look at their products and give them feedback and they wanna sign the NDA a and I’m like. The NDA, you need that once you’re already in the market and popular because you know, that’s, that’s the only time you’re gonna be ripped off is once you’ve already proven that there’s a market for this and you’ve created, you know, the, the, the awareness of, of that given idea or that product or whatever.

Nobody’s gonna rip you off when you don’t, when you just have an idea. Everyone has an idea that’s not worth anything, you know? Um. So that’s my 2 cents on.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: So these copy artists, I mean their, their names should be copy preneurs, right? Like they

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: copy their whole, their whole,

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: their whole idea, their whole

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: business, their like business model is basically, yeah, wait till something gets popular and then find a way to engineer it for less money and make it a crappier product.

And that’s, that’s the idea. And confuse the customer.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Can you talk a little bit about your team? Um. Yeah. Who, who, who’s supporting this business? Are you working mostly with the, uh, contractors? Do you have in-house team?

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: A little bit of both. Uh, we have, I mean obviously Scott and I, um, kind of running the day to day along with, um, another, uh, gentleman named Ian, who is kind of our community development manager.

He does a lot with schools. He is a former PE teacher, and so he’s going around to different schools, uh, events and functions and conferences and, and camps and things like that. And maybe do a little more of like the grassroots community building. Um, we have someone, uh, on our team, Jessica, that manages our social media.

Um, she kind of does two things, social media slash pr outreach. Uh, we have a fractional CFO Greg, he’s a former partner at a, a big toy, uh, or was a very popular outdoor game called K Jam. Um, and he’s created his own CFO, uh, accounting, you know, fractional firm. So,

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: hmm.

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: We have agencies that we work with on the meta and Facebook advertising side.

Same thing with our Amazon side of things I mentioned we’ve got buskey for logistics. So yeah, I mean, it’s mostly contractors. Uh, we’ve, we’ve kind of built that by design, to be honest with you, is, um, Scott and I, we are trying to build a lifestyle business. Uh, we don’t necessarily wanna manage big teams.

And so everyone works remotely and we can move remotely. You know, I’m planning on moving our family to Spain next year. Uh, so, uh, that’s, that’s part of the business model is that we can, you know, run this from anywhere in the world.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Talking about lifestyle business, um, do you, I mean, it sounds like, uh, you kind of reached the, um, the, uh, the, the dreamland of entrepreneurs, right?

Where. You are, you’re working a little bit and then you’re able to do the things that you want to do or live where you want to do, like as you are doing in, in Spain. Um, do you, do you feel like this is, like, I mean, you, you’ve arrived at what the entrepreneurs dream

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: Nirvana?

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Yes,

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: I’ve achieved Nirvana. Um, no, I, I don’t know.

I mean, I’ll say, you know, I’ve been at this for a long time, so, you know, my first entrepreneurial. With the software. I mean, that was 15 years ago, you know, sold it roughly 10 years ago. Um, uh. So it’s, it’s taken a long time to kind of get to this point of knowing what I’m doing with setting it up like this.

So this didn’t just happen overnight. This was very much by design. But yeah, I would say, you know, the, the kind of buzzword or cliche of like quality of life, you know, I have a young family. I’m able to spend a lot of time with them. Um, take my kids to school, that type of a thing. Uh, if I ever decide I want to take an afternoon off, you know, I can do that.

That being said, there’s also no one else that’s kind of running the ship. If, if I’m not or if Scott’s not. So it’s one of these like double-edged sword maybe. It’s like while you have the flexibility to do whatever you want, you also. Need to al always be on to some degree. So, you know, I do find myself, not extensively, but like I’m, I’m working a lot of weekends, you know, a lot of times it’s maybe checking in on customer service issues, you know, things like that.

And, um, just trying to like stay, stay on top of things. So I don’t wake up Monday morning with this big inbox full of stuff, but, um, so it’s this balance. It’s like, in no sense I’m, I’m working when I want, but I’m also always working. Uh, so it’s, it works for me.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Um, I, I’m very curious, so you have a co uh, a partner, a co-founder, and did you, uh, did you know Scott from before or was it, uh, just, uh, someone that you happened to, uh, find as you were, uh, working through this project?

Um, because a lot of the times, I mean, I would say 90% of the times when I. Meet entrepreneurs who’ve had, uh, co-founders or partners. It usually goes like, uh, it doesn’t, I mean, one way, one reason or another, it doesn’t work out. Mm-hmm. Um, what has, I mean, do you, what’s, what’s your perspective on this? Like, how, um, how is it, I, I’m assuming it’s working for you.

Like what, what, what is it that, uh, how are you making it work?

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: So I’ve had both. I’ve had business partners in the past that haven’t really worked out. Um, so I get it. Um, I think the benefit for Scott and I mentioned, I met him because he was the first retailer to carry my original game. So we met kind of as a business relationship first.

So we kind of understood each other’s strengths on a business level, um, before we ever, you know. Decided to work together and then we actually, you know, became friends. So it was like business relationship first, um, established, you know, trust and respect for each other. Then became friends and just, you know, build deeper trust, I’ll say.

Um, and then decided to be business partners. And so. I think going that way, a lot of times I think you’ll see where it’s like your friends and then decide to be business partners and that can sometimes lead to difficult situations ’cause you haven’t worked together before. And I think that’s a, it’s a tough environment, uh, business in general.

And so, um, yeah, I mean, for us. We get along great. And I think we kind of have unique skill sets that compliment each other. Um, maybe a little more on the operation side. He’s maybe a little more on the, the kind of the front end, you know, marketing, um, and creative side of things. And so I think we just kind of compliment each other.

Well,

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: I think, I think that makes a lot of sense. Uh, if you have worked with someone, you know, at least. If they’re trustworthy. And number two, their work ethic, right? Like, they’re not just going to, uh,

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: mm-hmm.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Leave in the middle of things,

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: right?

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Um, in every entrepreneur journey, there’s always failures, mistakes, lessons learned.

Um, what has been like, uh, I mean, you’ve been an entrepreneur for a long time, so, uh, maybe you can share maybe your general mistakes or if you want to share something specific related to this. Uh, business. What has been a big lesson, uh, that you’ve learned and what can other entrepreneurs learn from your mistakes?

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: One comes to mind. There’s a product that we tried launching as actually was, it was Scott and I, and we had a relationship with this gentleman who’s a, you know, very wealthy, successful businessman. And he had, he had a relationship with a famous YouTuber and YouTuber, had millions of followers on every channel.

And he was like, Hey, we should come up with a game. For the YouTuber to kind of help, you know, for them to kind of be the marketing angle to it. And so we did, and, uh, it was a disaster. Um, you know, I think not starting with like product first principles, so I, I say this a lot to other entrepreneurs, like if the product is amazing, everything else will kind of work itself out.

You have to do those still, you still have to sale, sell it, and market it and everything, but. Ultimately if the customer gets it and enjoys the product and the experience, like that’s gonna win out at the end of the day. Versus if you have really great marketing and the product sucks and then that’s just gonna be, you know, this death spiral ultimately.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Yeah.

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: And that was a little bit of what it was. I mean, know I think we de, we built a good product, but it wasn’t. The best thing that we’ve ever done because we were trying to just create something so specific for this person. And, and then on top of that, the, the business model was that we were gonna have the, you know, the YouTuber be the marketing engine.

Mm-hmm. And they wouldn’t really engage. And so, you know, they’re busy making videos and doing other things, and they weren’t really interested in selling the product. And it was like, well, that all kind of starts to break down when you have an okay product. With no marketing, like that’s kind of a disaster scenario.

So, um, I think, you know, just bringing that full circle, make an amazing product, whatever it is you’re, or service, you know, just have that be amazing and then everything else will kind of fall in line.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: So you are the, uh, uh, uh, so you are, uh, of the thought that you have to start with the product, have an amazing product, and then, uh, then go out and do good marketing.

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: A hundred percent.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Uh, now I’m going to move on to our rapid fire segment. In this segment, I’m going to ask you a few quick questions and you have to answer them maybe in a word or a sentence or so. So the first one is one book recommendation for entrepreneurs and why

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: I. Loved Shoe Dog. It’s the book about Phil Knight and the story of Nike.

Um, maybe it’s a little cliche, I don’t know, but that one to me was just, uh. I’m a fan of Nike. I grew up wearing Nikes and Air Jordans and still do, and also just, yeah, hi. His background, his story, and you know, creating what he had he did with Nike. I just find it fascinating and the way the story was written.

Um, I think there’s just so, it’s such a good. Entrepreneurial story that was told. And you can glean so many insights from it just by the storytelling, uh, versus let’s say a book about entrepreneurship. You know, it’s like, just read, read that, and you’ll, you’ll understand what it takes to be a good entrepreneur.

So that’s, that’s one that comes to mind.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: No, that’s a, that’s a great choice. Um, an innovative product or idea in the current e-commerce retail or tech landscape that you feel excited about.

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: There’s a company called Frost Buddy that I am. Just kind of friends with the, the founder on, on LinkedIn and he’s very active on social media and I’ve kind of witnessed this journey from, uh, it’s, it’s basically, um, like a competitor to, uh, the Stanley Cup mugs.

Um, and you know, I just have been very impressed with what they’ve built and, um, watching from afar. So that’s one that comes to mind is this company called Frost Buddy.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: A business or productivity tool, tool or software that you would recommend or a productivity tip.

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: I mean, if you’re not using chat GPT, then I don’t know what you’re doing with your life.

Um, yeah, I mean, we’re, we’re, we’re one of the many millions of people out there that are implementing AI into their workflows and, you know, just from different. Various aspects that you can, you know, take advantage of AI and, um, you know, writing, you know, sales letters or marketing letters or, you know, mark marketing emails and things like that.

It just, it, it’s saved a ton of time. Um, even I’m, I’m starting to use it for investor letters. Um, so, uh, it’s, uh, it’s a really valuable tool. So that one is a easy, easy answer.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: It, it saves so much time and, and now money also. Like it’s,

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: mm-hmm.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: You can, you can create so many things. Um, another startup or business that you think is currently doing great things,

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: that’s kinda the same as like that, that frost buddy question, you know, I’m just gonna kinda say that one again.

I’m just, you know, impressed with, with what they’re doing.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Um, a peer entrepreneur or business person whom you look up to or someone who inspires you.

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: Um, I’m really, I’ve always liked Richard Branson, just kind of the way that he’s. About his businesses. You know, he doesn’t take life too seriously and always has a very positive attitude, you know, gives back and is very valuable.

He is very generous with his time. Uh, I read a, I’ve read a couple of his books and I just, uh, I think he’s a great human being as well as a great entrepreneur. And so that’s one that comes to mind.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Awesome. And I think he’s also created a great lifestyle. Like he’s. He lives on an island and like manages business

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: remotely.

Exactly, yeah. He’s windsurfing down in Necker Island and, you know, seems to, seems to be having a, doing it right.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Have you, have you ever been to Necker? I mean, I, I know a lot of people go visit him.

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: Yeah. I would like, I would like to if he is, if he is listening, I’d love an invite.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Uh, final question, best business advice that you have ever received or you would give to other entrepreneurs?

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: Um, I would say to other entrepreneurs, one that I, I, I talk to a lot of kind of aspiring entrepreneurs and it’s like they want to just. Talk about their product nonstop without actually doing anything.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Hmm.

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: They’re like playing entrepreneur as opposed to being an entrepreneur. And my my recommendation is get started.

Like, I mean, just go put something out there to, for people to beat up and respond to and, you know, build, build the website, sell, sell one, sell one item of what you’re trying to do and get that real world feedback. And, um, so it’s, it’s, it’s really just a stick. Get going. Stop talking about it and, and, and do it.

Just do it.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Yeah. Just do, yeah. And, and it’s so, I mean, it, it gives you so much energy when you sell your, when you make your first sale, right? Like mm-hmm. Up until that time, everything is an idea. But the moment you make your first sale and you sell something, it’s like everything becomes real. And you’re like, okay, I’ve created something, or I’ve made something that.

Yeah, that other

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: people, somebody has

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: actually

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: paid money out of their wallet to pay me for that product. Yeah. It’s a, yeah, it’s greatest feeling in the world. I mean, you know, every once in a while, um, we get emails or I’ll even like see a product I created out in the wild. That’s, that’s probably the, the coolest thing, you know, where you’re just walking by a park happen to see it.

But, um, you know, if you ever get that kind of email of someone saying, this is my favorite game, or, you know, we played this for three hours or whatever, it’s the most rewarding part of my job.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Yeah. Yeah. You, you’ve made a difference, uh,

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: yeah.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: To other people’s lives. Well, Tim, thank you so much again for sharing your story.

Those were all the questions I had. If anybody wants to, uh, check out Paddle Smash, what’s the best way to do that?

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: Yeah, check out our website, paddle smash.com. You know, regardless of where you’re watching this at, it’s probably available in your local market, so either via our website or on Amazon.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Awesome. Well, Tim, thank you so much again for your time, for sharing the story and really, really appreciate your, uh, time and wish you all the very best.

Tim Swindle of PaddleSmash: Thank you for having me.