$50K/Month Revolutionizing Home Golf Simulators with Affordable Quality – Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: hey there, entrepreneurs. My name is Sushant and welcome to Trap Talks. This is a show where I interview successful e-commerce entrepreneurs, business executives, and thought leaders, and ask them questions about their business story, and also dive deep into some of the strategies and tactics that they have used to start and grow their businesses.

And today I’m really excited to welcome Igor Vainshtein to the show. Igor is the founder of 24 7 Golf, which. Golf simulator for personal and commercial use. And today I’m gonna ask you a few questions about his entrepreneurial journey and some of the strategies and tactics that he has used to start. So thank you so much for joining me today at trip.

Really 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: appreciate it. Absolute pleasure. Thanks for having 

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: me. So I was just reading a little bit about you on, on, on, on uh, the internet and I saw a story where, You, I believe, as a kid you were, you sold water in Ukraine and then your parents were chastised or something. So that’s, it seems like you’ve, you always been an entrepreneur.

Can you share a little bit about, you know, your, your background and, and uh, you know, what are some of the things you’ve been doing before starting 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: this business? Yeah, sure. So, yeah, you picked up that correctly. My, um, I was born in a little place called Moldova, um, which is, uh, next to Ukraine and, um, part of former US s r uh, so I grew up, you know, in a, in a communist country.

Uh, but I was wide a little bit differently and I had this little, little hustle side hustle, uh, back when I was like six or seven at a, at a school camp in, um, over in Ukraine on the Black Sea. And, uh, sold water, made really good money. My parents got called into the, Communist headquarters when I go back and we told they’re, they’re raising a little oi Z pig.

Mm-hmm. . Um, and, uh, they were pr they were very proud of me. So, um, they’re like, we gotta get out of here. 

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: So in, and, and, and communist, um, regime entrepreneurship was seen as something. 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: I suppose it was, uh, it was evil and capitalist and, you know, uh, yeah, it was pretty bad, uh, you know, until the war came down and then they, they realized everything.

But, you know, it was, yeah, there was a lot of brainwashing back then. Um, and so my parents moved from former US side to Australia back in 91. So we landed in Australia on May 10th, 1991. I was, I was, uh, almost 11 years old. Spoke no English at all. And, uh, we arrived in, in Australia with $200, you know, four suitcases.

Um, and off we went, you know, starting to build a new life. Um, so that’s kind of, kind of where it started, but I’ve always had sort of this, this, I don’t know, business entrepreneurial kind of itch. Uh, and uh, I started. You know, even back from U S S R, but in Australia, you know, I, I started building websites.

No, I started working like in it, uh, running cables and networking, like when I was 14. And then I worked at McDonald’s for three months, but then by about 16, um, you know, I, um, I, I, I saw the birth of the internet and, um, I started, uh, about 16 or 17, I think, I think it was 16. I started building websites for companies, um, you know, before he went, knew what a website was really.

Mm-hmm. Um, and so that’s kind of where I first started, you know, my own business. Um, and, uh, and I finished school at 17, uh, went to college, uh, to do an info systems degree. So like an it. . Mm. And I, I worked full-time, uh, but then I kind of, uh, also started a little business. Like, uh, I was, I was again just consulting programming.

I was a programmer developer, you know. Uh, so, uh, but I actually worked, you know, talking about e-commerce. I worked in the, the very first e-commerce startup in Australia back in 98. Okay. Uh, so I was, you know, I was, I was involved in e-commerce very early and, uh, wish, wish I stuck with it, but I kind of digressed for a number of years.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: So is, uh, is 24 7 golf. Is this, do you consider, is this an e-commerce business or is. 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: It is, absolutely. It is. Like when I, when I, when I first started, it wasn’t, it was a, it was an actual venue where you go in and you, uh, you play virtual golf. Um, but I actually had, um, I had a couple venues and one of them went outta business.

It, you know, didn’t do well. Mm-hmm. and I, and I had all this equipment and I had to sell it. So I put it on, I think Facebook marketplace and I sold it in like a week and I thought to myself, This is easy, , you know, so I’ve bought a few more. Sold those and you know, now, now we’re, you know, we’re a full e-commerce business.

We have multiple warehouses, you know, uh, 24 7 itself started in Melbourne, Australia. So I’ve got a warehouse there. I’ve got a team, uh, there and I’ve got a warehouse here in Dallas, Texas, which is where I moved a year ago. So even though I haven’t got quite the text and accent, just. Um, and I also have a JV partner with a warehouse in Luxembourg in Belgium.

So I have a sort of a brand representation in Europe. So we’re a, we’re actually 

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: global. Cool. Can you share a little bit about your product? Like what, what, what is this and who actually, um, uses this kind of simulator rather than, you know, going out and playing? Like, like who’s, who’s who? Yeah. Like what, what, what problem is this solving?

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: Sure. Good question. So, um, uh, golf simulators have been around for, you know, 15, 20 years, but the price point, you know, was a hundred thousand, then it was like 70,000, 50,000. Uh, so, um, what I said, what I do actually, I manufacture, uh, enclosures. So that kind of, the, the, if you think like a tent that you hit into and the mats and everything, and I resell technology products like the actual device that tracks the.

projectors, computers, et cetera, and software. And, uh, w what the problem I solve is I, I make it affordable for everyone. So my, my vision with, with the business was really to create, you know, demo, uh, democratize it to be affordable to a huge, you know, well just about anyone, really, anyone who can afford a set of good golf clubs, you know, or afford to play.

You know, uh, should be able to afford a simulator. And so my price point, you know, uh, is extremely affordable without compromising the quality. And so, you know, the packages I sell are, you know, between, you know, three and a half thousand dollars through to maybe eight and a half thousand dollars, not, you know, 15 to 50 or 70 that you see in a lot of other companies.

And so, you know, my customers are. You know what I call everyday people that love their golf and so they put ’em into their garage or a spare room or even outdoors or in their office, in a warehouse, you know, um, uh, et cetera. And, and, uh, that, that’s really, you know, my customer. Um, and the problem, uh, you know, golf stimulation is a really interesting, uh, I think, you know, I like that question.

What problem are you solving? It’s always the first question I ask when people are sort of pitching ideas to me, or concepts like, what, what real problem, what real world problem are you solving? And. golf simulations solves the problem of time. You know, people love golf. Like people who play golf, they get obsessed with golf.

I’m one of those people, I’m obsessed with golf. Um, but golf takes a long time to play. Mm-hmm. Um, and more so it takes a long, long time to practice mm-hmm. , you know, to get better. It’s, it’s, it’s surprisingly a very difficult sport to master. Um, and so golf simulators in your house, Solves the problem of time.

So when I, when I, uh, when I train my, my team in, in how they talk to customer, really the main question is, you know, well, you know, how much time could you get back because you know, that’s really what you’re selling. You know, the product is golf simulation, but the problem, the solution is time. Mm. Um, and so I, I quite like that approach and I think it’s quite viable.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: So how exactly does it work? So you hit a ball and you’re seeing, I’m on your website actually, and I’m looking at one of the products Yeah. You’re seeing, you’re seeing like the, the image of the golf course and then does, does the image or the, um, the field move along with how fast you have hit the ball and, and, and now you’re like looking at a different 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: scenario.

Yeah, so you hit the real ball with the real golf clubs and you know, it picks up, you know, the, the, the distance and the spin and the launch angles and et cetera. And basically the, the tracking device, you know, extrapolates the data and, uh, sort of simulates what a shop would’ve looked like if you were outdoors.

And then you can play virtual courses, or you can be on a virtual driving range. And so, yeah, the screen, you know, shows you the ball flying and, and then you hit the next shot or the next shot, and then you play, you know, full 18 holes kind. I mean, you, you, um, have you seen, you know, those, you know, racing simulators, car racing or flight simulators?

Hmm. Go the same thing, except in this scenario you were actually, you know, whacking a golf ball at pretty high speeds into a screen. Um, so yeah, that’s what makes you 

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: different. Well, I mean, it sounds like a very interesting concept as you were describing it. I’m thinking. You know, what, what are some of these, the new technologies that, that are coming and being used in like, uh, video gaming, like this, uh, virtual reality headset.

Yeah. And things like this. I mean, given that you’re an avid golfer, like have you, are, are there any of these new technologies kind of using a similar idea but actually bringing the form factor even further smaller, like in a, uh, in a, uh, gloss, kinda 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: a thing? Yeah, so look, there, there are about, the problem with, uh, a lot of these devices is that they’re quite chunky.

You know, I’ve got, um, in, here’s my Quest controller, you know, I’ve got, I’ve got a VR headset. I’ve got I think two or three of augmented reality glasses. I’ve got a lot of different devices. And, um, the, the problem with all ’em at the moment is that they’re just, Chunky, they’re too cumbersome. Um, but it is progressing.

And so one of my other companies, uh, so 24 7 golf kind of is the e-commerce part. But I actually launched a new, um, an app quite recently called Golf Track, which is, you can see my little logo here. Um, and you know, that does the set that tracks the board just using the, the cameras on the back of your phone.

And so, you know, the technology is improving where you can progress to kind of the next level. You, you know, you’re need an expensive device and where you can just use your phone, which is already in your pocket, and then you connect that to, you know, um, you know, software where you can play virtual, you know, I mean, it’s golf there, there’s other sports.

And, you know, who knows kind of where it’s going. Hopefully in the end it’ll, it’ll end up like the holiday on Star Trek. If you’ve ever watched Star Trek, it’s, you know, when you, it’s like the Ultimate or you know, ready Player one if you watch that movie. You know, like that’s the ultimate dream. But I think we’re still fairway away from that.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Okay. Um, so was this idea, I mean, it seems like there’s, you have, uh, you know, you’re creating some things yourself. You’re adding the technology from other, uh, uh, other companies. So it’s almost seems like you’re doing a little bit of a product development kinda within yourself. Are there other businesses, um, who are doing similar things?

I’m, I’m sure there’s a big market. There’s, um, other also. 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: Um, absolutely. Yeah. So, so there are, there are, you know, there I have competitors and they, there’s a couple of competitors that manufacture themselves. There’s two that manufacture in the us. There are some that, you know, resell others, um, you know, so the, the, uh, the enclosure itself, like when you hit into, mine’s quite unique.

I actually design it myself. I have a patent on it. . Um, and it’s got some unique features, um, but ultimately, you know, it’s, it’s really a commodity product. It’s just, uh, it just fits a particular niche. It’s, it’s sort of like, if you think of Peloton and the, you know, the, the, the, the bicycle, right? The, the, you know, that you have at home.

Uh, it, it’s in the same, there’s multiple models. It’s really, you know, kind of sim, same, same but little bit different. Um, and then, you know, I kind of put it together to create a solution so that you can play golf at home, you know, using whatever solution. And then on top of that, you know, and, and. A lot of this, you know, funnily enough kind of came, came about by accident.

Um, like the e-commerce story I told you before, uh, the app that I developed, uh, you know, it was a six year journey that also started as a bit of an accident, as a bit of a thought experiment. Uh, but ultimately, you know, in my view, you know, to truly scale up a business, uh, to, to, to create, you know, very significant impact in the market.

And, and that’s what I wanna do. I think you need to develop your own intellectual property, your own product, uh, and, and really, you know, try to lead the innovation of where, where all of this is going. And that, that’s what I’ve tried to do, is really innovate. And again, with the purpose of, um, you know, democratizing, uh, you know, this fun activity so that it’s literally in, you know, already in your pocket.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: So you mentioned that you, your business is in pre locations in Australia now in US and Luxembourg. What motivated you to come to the us? Was that more of, you know, a bigger market? Uh, you thought this is a bigger market to 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: pursue? Look, I, I, you know, I’ve wanted to move to the US for a long time. You know, I, I, um, I think America does certain things really well and, you know, that is created an environment for entrepreneurs to, uh, to really thrive and, and grow and, and the way that, you know, business is, is seen here.

I, I think it’s just really fabulous. Um, Australia, you know, had had a good, good, stable business and it was growing really well, but, , you know, it’s still a small market. Uh, there’s like a million golfers roughly in a Australia. In the US there are 35 million golfers. Mm-hmm. . So the market size is just so much bigger.

Mm-hmm. . Uh, and, um, and you see, you know, I think as an entrepreneur, if you really want to test yourself, uh, as an entrepreneur, you know, to, to. You know, uh, kinda like athletes, you know, test themselves on the world stage at the Olympics. Like, you’ve gotta play at the right stage. There’s no point sort of being the best in a, you know, in a, um, you know, in your local county or something, right?

You want to be, you wanna test yourself, you know, in the biggest market in the world. And, and that’s, that’s why I wanted to move here and that, that is why I moved here. And, you know, and it’s, and it’s been an amazing journey. And I’m, um, love here. Uh, love being here in Texas as well. I kind of like Texas, so.

Mm-hmm. very happy here in Dallas. 

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Cool. Um, so it seems like, you know, your business kinda as you were saying, you know, it was an accident or it, it came about organically, you know, which, which is, I guess you really have to be lucky to, to stumble into a, a good idea. Um, you know, a lot of people try to validate, you know, come up with a new idea and validate and things like that, but, uh, seems, seemed to be worked out well for you.

Did you, like when you were starting out, was it really just, okay, I sold. A few of these let me reinve the money and get some more and, and get through like that. So you didn’t really need, um, to invest your own money or like a huge investment to, to build Christmas. 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: Look, it’s an interesting, so there’s a great golfer and I can’t remember who exactly said it, so I don’t wanna say the wrong, uh, name in the quote, but he said, Uh, I think it’s Sams need, but I, I’m not sure.

He said, uh, the, the harder I work, the luckier I get mm-hmm. , you know, in terms of his golf game. Right. Um, you know, the more I practice the, the, the luckier I get, um, I, I definitely wouldn’t see my, my journey as kind of lucky. Um, it, it’s been very, very difficult. Um, it’s had lots of challenges and I think we’re all given lots of opportunities on a daily basis.

The question is, can you see them and can you take them? Uh, and you know, even when things don’t go right, can you get back? You know, if you, if you get knocked down, can you get back up and do it again? Um, and you know, this came out from, you know, business that I, that kind of failed, that I lost a lot of money on that.

I had to kind of try to recover something out of it, not just kind of, you know, put it all in the trash. Um, and that resulted in, you know, An idea. And then I had to kind of invest, you know, money that I didn’t have because I just lost a lot of money, uh, to go buy some more, you know, stock some more inventory and sell that and, and try to repeat that multiple times until you’re at a point.

And then, you know, I grew and then I all of a sudden said, well, you know, to truly kind of deliver what I want, I need to manufac. , you know, this. Um, and so then I had to kind of build a manufacturing. So again, you just like, you’ve had a bit of success and you just tip it all back in, into the business and, you know, it could go up in flames or it could become a success, or sometimes it kind of goes up in flames as it’s succeeding.

It’s just, it’s, you know, it’s just complete chaos. And I think anyone’s who’s running a business and they say it’s easy or lucky, I think, uh, you know, are probably lying , 

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: definitely. Um, What is, uh, how do you, um, how do you find customers or how do you, uh, or, or are the customers, because I’m assuming that people who play golf are really passionate about the the game, and so, you know, they’re, they’re looking for.

How to improve my game or something like that. And they will do, do a search and come across, across your business if you’ve done, uh, good SEO and stuff like that. Can you share a little bit about your marketing? How, how do customers discover you or, or do you do like more of an advertising thing 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: to Yeah, sure.

So, um, You know, customers, uh, obviously normal, you know, seo cm, you know, can be pretty useful. But like, for example, here in the US my competitors are much bigger than me cause I’m, I’m a newcomer, so I, I can’t compete with their budgets. They’re, they’re much bigger. They spend a lot of my money. Uh, and, uh, you know, so we, we found our niche in, for example, Facebook, uh, advertising, Instagram, uh, YouTube, you know, we have a lot of influencers.

People that, that record content, uh, kind of like what you’re doing, but, uh, you know, with this interview, but they do it with golf simulation. And so, you know, we, we, we give them our products, say, Hey, please try it. You know, tell us what you think. If they love it, they do their own content. Uh, we do a deal where, you know, they, they promote it and we, uh, you know, we, we have a really good sort of commercial, you know, arrangement.

And it’s all very, you know, um, uh, transparent and, and you know, we, we do, you know, hope people love it because that’s, you know, what, you know, we, we, we love our product. We want other people to love it, but really you gotta get it out there. If no one knows about it, you may have the best product on the planet, but if you, if no one knows about it, that’s gonna be hard to sell.

Um, and, uh, you know, golfers, uh, are pretty obsessive, um, you know, so they spend a lot of time on YouTube or Instagram. So, you know, those channels have been really good for. Um, and, uh, but yeah, more the social part is definitely, uh, uh, you know, a more successful strategy than sort of a traditional, you know, seo s cm, uh, pathway.

Um, 

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: yeah. Do you, do you now think about, because us have a bigger. Um, market, obviously as you said, do you think about going into retail or, you know, going into more special, uh, you know, having your products in a more specialty shops, uh, sports best shops, or creating maybe your own storefront or something?

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: Yeah, look, I, I, I’m definitely not interested in a storefront. Um, we do have wholesale partners in the US versus like Australia, where we are quite dominant. We, we have wholesale partners, so, um, some, you know, big, big companies that, that, you know, buy and bulk from, from us, and they, they market it to their customers and that’s a really good strategy.

Uh, it is been a really good strategy here in, in, in North America, uh, because the scale is so large. You know, we, we’d rather partner with companies that, that already have scale and, and can deliver to a large number of clients. Um, and we just support that in a, in a really, you know, positive partnership versus trying to compete with them or compete with the other existing players.

I mean, you, you know, if, with the new, new guys on the block, so we kind of have to prove ourselves. We have to, you know, work harder, you know, um, you know, Avis, do you know, you know the car rental company? Avis? Yeah. Uh, so Hertz was always the biggest that the thing still is. And you know, they used to have this campaign.

uh, a number of years ago, um, let’s say, you know, we we’re number two, so we try harder. Mm-hmm. , you know, and, and I, and I, and I think that really applies to us. Like we have to try harder to, to, to, you know, make a name for ourselves in the market. And, um, that’s the strategy kind of, we’ve chosen, I think it’s, it’s, it’s been pretty good so far.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Any, any interesting, um, marketing campaigns or advertising campaigns or, or social media thing that that has worked really well for you? That has given for 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: us? Yeah. The main thing for us is really video content. Like, it’s, um, it’s a very emotional purchase. Uh, it’s not, you know, you don’t need a goal simulate

Um, you, you want one. Uh, and, uh, and so we, we have to appeal to that emotional, you know, very, um, You know, graphic, visual, uh, kind of, you know, it’s a visual saying. It’s not, it’s not, it’s not logical and, you know, tangible. Mm-hmm. Um, and so we’ve, we’ve gone down that path a little bit and, um, had some success with that.

So that’s probably the main thing is we, we, you know, I wish we, we, we realized just how visual the sailors earlier in our journey, but that, that’s been a, an interesting kind of thing about this particular niche. 

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: I mean, I would say because this product is, I would say still relatively, um, at a high, not, not at a high price point because you know it, I’m sure the value, it’s still, it’s.

Yeah, it’s, it is a, I would say a luxury height. Not everybody is going to invest like five, $8,000 in buying this. Is this like, are you, do you take, is it completely like hands off, you know, somebody finds your, uh, your content look at video and they, they would make that impulse purchase or you know, they would make that emotional purchase?

Or is it more of a. Um, do you have salespeople, so people call then salespeople are doing their sales job to try to get, get people 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: across the line or, so it’s a good question. So, um, we do have a lot of impulse buys because people come to us kinda ready to buy. So they’ve done research, they’ve spent a lot of time on YouTube and hopefully they’ve seen our products on, on YouTube and some people that they trust.

You know, I think the world’s really changed into, you know, that whole peer, peer trusting. So people try to find. What would someone like me do, you know? And they find that on YouTube or whatever, or Instagram. Uh, and so, uh, we, we have people that kind of do that. Um, we also have salespeople, but they’re more, they’re not really traditional salespeople because this product requires, um, in knowledge, deep knowledge of, of the product or the solution.

And so, uh, one thing that set us apart, and I think when I started the company, I was so, so much into. And I used to have indoor golf center, so I, I just know a lot of stuff. And the way that I would sell initially and had success is by really knowing a lot of details and people were quite impressed by how much I could, uh, I knew and how I could, you know, explain things.

And so when I hired a team to. Kind of take those inbound calls or inbound inquiries, I wanted to make sure that they had the same understanding. So, you know, for example, one of my guys here in, uh, in the us he lives in, um, in, in Arizona. You know, he used to have one, uh, simulator that he sold it, bought another one.

And so by the time he started with me, he was already a customer. You know, he was already a my exact type of customer. And so he can really relate to the people that, that call in. Uh, but you, uh, in a, in a, in a purchase price like this, You’re right, it’s cheap for golf simulators, but it’s very expensive for Ecommerces.

Uh, and, uh, the way to get around that is you need to have people that have a, they’re product experts, they need to be really good at what they do. You can’t do like a, you know, a traditional, you know, phone based call center salesperson. It’s just wouldn’t work for this price point. Yeah. 

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Um, is, does, does TikTok have the kind of, Customers that you want?

I, I would assume maybe not . So 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: it, it’s funny, we just, we just recently started with a couple of TikTok influencers. I mean, I don’t even use TikTok. Um, but um, we, we’ve had some sales from it. Uh, and so, so yeah, it, it’s, I think because our price points a lot more reasonable than, than others. Um, I think that’s why TikTok actually.

Okay. Uh, but you know, it’s definitely, I, I wouldn’t say it’s the main channel. YouTube is really big for us, just YouTube and, and Facebook. So, which, which, you know, has been an older market. Both of those, you know, platforms are an older market and, and my market is definitely more 35 plus not sort of under.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Uh, and your, your products are, are you only selling on your website or do you also, uh, are you also available on Amazon or some of the other market? So yeah, 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: we, we have an Amazon presence. Uh, we have, uh, like some of those wholesale partners that I mentioned, um, and, uh, but yeah, a a lot of direct to consumer as well.

But in, in, in, in North America, we’re definitely leaning more towards like, um, partnerships and wholesale. And in Australia we’re definitely, um, like 90% direct to consumer. Okay. 

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: What does your, uh, team look like? 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: Um, so I’ve got obviously a couple warehouses. So I’ve got, you know, warehouse operations, I’ve got customer service, you know, phone-based email, live chat.

Um, I have, uh, some, some salespeople, you know, you know, like I mentioned earlier. Um, and I have a, you know, I have a country manager for Australia and I have like an, an operational person here in the US that kind of runs all the ops. Um, and you know, I’m kind of the. The talking head that you. Plays golf, talks to people, that kind of thing.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: So you’re, you’re the main, uh, marketer or do you have like a marketing team that 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: helps you? No, I’ve got a marketing team and I’ve got, I’ve got some really great, um, uh, like they, they’re, uh, outsource partners, uh, that manage, uh, you know, uh, uh, AdWords. And I have, uh, someone who manage all the Facebook ads, got someone else who does like all my, um, um, automation in terms of, you know, chat bots and, uh, email automation, uh, text automation, et cetera.

So, Um, so there’s, there’s a team. There’s, you know, over 20 people sort of all. 

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Okay. Um, you mentioned that you have your own warehouses. Um, have you ever, is it easier to manage your own warehouse versus, like if you, um, hire like a third party logistics company to 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: Uh, yeah, it’s a good question. Um, a lot of people ask me about that, so, Our products, um, are, the package is quite large and they’re quite heavy.

You know, they’re like, um, uh, you know, the, uh, like the, the, the enclosure itself comes in two boxes. Each one weighs about, you know, 40 pounds. Um, okay. You know, and, and you know, our sort of, um, you know, three, three and a half foot tall sort of box, so they’re quite heavy, quite big. Um, and so, third, third party didn’t really work for us.

And you know, because they’re not, they’re more built for small products. They’re more, you know, for widgets and, and small products, uh, very large, heavy products is difficult for them. We also had some, you know, issues with boxes where, you know, because of the head weight, you know, sometimes of the boxes get crushed in, in, um, in shipping.

It allow, having our own warehouse allowed us to fix problems very quickly as they occurred. So, you know, tape the boxes more, you know, vigorously, uh, or, uh, you know, um, change the box or create another box to put another, like all these little things that kinda added up. And so having our own warehouses gave us a lot of control.

Um, and so, um, I think if you have a more standardized product that is larger volume, Small packaging that maybe, you know, three PL may be a good option. But for us, and, and in each and, and also like we, you know, high, high price, low volume. So I think also to get really value out of three pl, you need to have volume.

Mm-hmm. Otherwise it becomes uneconomical. 

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Uh, on your website it says you have, uh, free, you, you offer free shipping. Um, cause your, the items are so heavy. Um, I’m assuming you’re, you’re, uh, building the, the shipping, pricing of your, the 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: product pricing itself. Yeah, exactly. I mean, you know, we kind of average it out and, you know, we even offer free shipping to Canada.

Uh, you know, it’s just, it kind of works out, you know, I think people expect that these days and, you know, we want, you know, I kind. Our, our value is that we want to give people a solution. We don’t want ’em to worry about things that they don’t need to worry about. You know, we are good at shipping, let us worry about the shipping.

You just, you just want your product, you. 

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Yeah. Cool. Um, what is your, uh, future vision for your business? I mean, I know, I know, uh, every business owner wants to continue growing the business. Is that, uh, I mean, you’re passionate about golf. You have a great business, you’re building for golf. Like, do you, like this is, is this your life work or, uh, um, where do you see yourself like five, 10 years down the.

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: Yes. Uh, you know, good question as well. Um, look, the, the e-commerce part of the business, kind of a, you know, a, uh, necessity, it’s an accessory business. It’s an enabler for a golf simulator, uh, to, to kind of happen. But really where, where I see my future is in the app. Um, and, you know, so we launched that only about six weeks ago, you know, and it’s been, you know, uh, it’s.

Really great. We’ve had, you know, one and a half thousand downloads in a short period of time, you know, really filling out the market. But ultimately, you know, I, I’d love to have, you know, a million people using it, uh, you know, a million people having, you know, simulators in their house and, you know, playing, um, playing golf and, uh, maybe other sports in the future.

Uh, but that’s really, um, that’s really where I see it is, is just the scale and to be able to really bring it to, um, to people that otherwise couldn’t afford it. . Um, and, and not, not, not something that I’m being altruistic, you know, it’s not about that. It’s really about accessibility. I think it’s, you know, it’s such a great thing.

You know, my, my, I got, I have kids and my, my son, um, you know, seven and a half, he, he does golf lessons. He does, uh, he’s got his own YouTube channel actually, uh, with like golf simulator and, and games. You know, my, my daughter will start golf, you know, in, in a couple. Once it turns four. So, you know, I love it.

Uh, I, I think, you know, I think everyone should play golf. Uh, and so I wanna make that available to as many people as possible. That’s, that’s 

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: awesome. Um, I’m interested in a little bit about your app. Like, is, are you giving that out? What is the business model behind that? Or is it paid app? Is it like, Uh, free to download and then you’re doing some sort of an upsell.

What, what is Yeah, that’s, what is the value 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: proposition of that? Yeah, it’s a pretty standard freemium model, so you know, it’s free to download, uh, free to use, you get your, your, so when you take a shot, you get your last shot data, um, on the screen. And, um, you can obviously, you know, just use that if you want.

Um, but if you wanna play like a, you know, 150,000 golf courses, which is a, a software I integrate with, or another piece of software. So if you wanna play courses, uh, or practice like on a, on a virtual range, uh, it’s a $99 a year, uh, model. and says it’s a subscription. Um, and obviously then, you know, if you do need, um, an enclosure and a map, I can sell you that from 24 7 golf.

So it’s like an accessory. So that’s what I mean, like the 24 7 golf part enables golf simulation, but ultimately you need something that tracks the ball. Um, so that’s, that’s the app model. Um, and you know, at the moment there’s still a lot of experiment, experimentation, you know, um, I’m giving a lot of licenses out for free, just.

You see how people use it, you know how they find it. You know, how do they find the instructions? Uh, you know, is it hard? Is it easy? Could I improve it? Um, so it’s still in a learning, very much a learning curve, but ultimately, uh, the idea is to, yeah. Uh, annual subscription, uh, and, um, uh, but you know, free to, you know, free to start.

Cause I think, I think apps, there’s a lot of apps out there. I think you gotta be, uh, you, you gotta enable people to. To try it out. Like they, they need to, they need to get hooked, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, so that, that’s, that’s, that’s the main purpose. 

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: So it’s almost like, I mean, you’re getting into a different, like a software business, uh, app, app business, how.

Um, is it like your ad development out outsourced? Are you getting it from like, uh, European countries or something? No, 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: actually, uh, I, I, my whole team is in house. Oh, really? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I’ve got, um, got a team of about non developers. Uh, and uh, yeah, it’s only my gra my designs in house. Everything’s in house and yeah, I have, I have, you know, I have staff in Kiev, you know, sometimes can’t work because electricity’s been knocked out with, with the war.

I’ve got other staff in, I’ve got a, uh, team in India, in other parts of Houston, Europe, uh, in Indonesia. So they’re scattered around, uh, around the world. Um, you know, the, the key finding, uh, the, the keys are just finding great people. , um, and, you know, where and in, in, in the world we’re live in now. Like, it doesn’t matter where you are.

Yeah. As long as they’re great people, they can, you know, make your company great. Um, and, uh, you know, I, I’m an IT guy. I kind of didn’t say this earlier, but, you know, I come from a tech background. I’m, I’m an IT guy. I was obviously software developer. I was a consultant, I was a project manager, cto. So, you know, my, my background’s taken.

I just fell in love with golf. Um, but. Yeah, the, the app is, is a completely different business in many ways, but the e-commerce partner really supports it. It’s, it’s a, you know, I think, uh, we, we, I started using a term, um, that I was mentioned to me in an interview, uh, a couple months ago, uh, fi you know, physical and digital.

So it’s now digital. It’s a combination of the two. You need both. Um, kinda like that whole metaverse concept, right? Which is, Yes, you’ve got this digital, but you still have physical interaction with it. But, uh, in this case it’s, it’s a sport and it’s fun and it’s prac, you know, practicing something, you know, you love.

I mean, given 

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: that you’re a tech person, have you explored meta work at all? What, like what are your initial parts on 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: that? ? I was like, I was like so excited about Second Life back. I don’t know what, 15 years ago when it came out, you know? And Okay, I looked at the Metaverse and I thought it Second Life version two.

Uh, okay. What’s different? I don’t know. Um, so short version is, no, I’m not really into it. Um, I think we have a long way to go before we’re. We, we, we find a way to interact with it. You know, it looks great in movies like Ready Play One, but in reality it, it’s, it’s not very, um, it’s just not very practical at the moment, but I’m sure we’ll get there one day.

Technology’s coming along. 

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: either, either Meta will get there or Meta kind of like the first try. And, and then some other company will come. And really, I, I 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: think there’s gonna be other companies. I, I, I think, I think it’s gonna be something. Revolutionary. You know, it’ll be something kind of like that came out of nowhere.

Yeah. Just like thought about, you know, like when Facebook came out of nowhere, you know, kind of, you know, or Yeah. I, I just think it’ll, it’ll happen in a way that, that we don’t expect. That’s, yeah. That’s my feeling. 

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: So in every entrepreneur’s journey, there’s always mistakes made, lessons learned, failures.

Um, can you share maybe like, uh, I mean, I, I know you, you shared that, you know, your business, uh, went, went, went out of business and stuff, but can you think of like a big mistake or failure that, uh, , uh, that really taught you a lesson. And what can other entrepreneurs 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: learn from it? I have made so many mistakes.

We’d be here for hours going through them. , uh, you know, I, I was nearly bankrupt three times. I, this is, this is not my first business. You know, I, I had a consulting company. Um, I had, um, I had a car rental company. I had lots of different companies and, um, I like the mis. You are always gonna make big mistakes.

I mean, one of the biggest mistakes for, I didn’t learn about cash. Really, I didn’t really, you know, hammer it into my head until, you know, whatever number of years ago. But, um, you know, cash flow scheme, uh, and every entrepreneur needs to get into their head that cash flow, cash flow, cash flow. You know, it’s, uh, you can be asset rich, cash poor, your business will go under.

Um, and so it’s a lifeblood of any business. So I wish I learned that, uh, younger. , uh, you know, and I, and I, you know, the, besides that, you know, the, all the other mistakes, uh, are, you know, pretty normal that, you know, um, uh, pretty normal entrepreneur mistakes. They’ll, what I’d say about those is that you’re, I read a lot of business biographies.

You know, I, I read. every, in fact, like literally every business biography I can get my hands on, uh, and, uh, it’s a much cheaper way to learn, um, from other mistakes to try to not make the same. And so my, my advice would be read as much as you can about other people’s mistakes so that you can try to avoid them yourself, because you’ll, you’ll, you’ll make plenty yourself.

Yeah. Does that, does that make sense? 

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Definitely. Definitely. Are you, uh, I mean, What I, what I want to say is like the, the, the new way of doing business, like all the industries are getting disrupted, so, uh, so heavily, um, even with like, you know, new technology like crypto and blockchain and things like that, you know, recent news, it almost seems like you know a lot of the things in the new world, you.

There isn’t really that, that book out there . So some, some of it is like, some of it is like, you know, you have to try it out, uh, and, and see if, you know, uh, if it worth 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: or not. , but the principles are the same. Um, you know, you asked me the question before, what problem are you solving? So I think what’s happening a lot in the, in the, you know, web three world is people are going, Hey, this is a great idea.

Um, we should build this. Okay. What problem can we find to solve with this idea? And really should be the way around. And every successful business has been built, has looked at a problem and solved the problem. Not created the product and then try to find a problem. Um, and, and I think that’s, that’s, I think that’s a mistake that a lot of entrepreneurs, that’s what I’ve seen a lot of entrepreneurs make.

They, they get very hooked on the idea. They get hooked on, you know, some really, you know, sexy new tech, you know, very innovative, but they can’t, they don’t know what it actually does. I mean, crypto’s a perfect example, you know, blockchain, et cetera. I’m, I’m sure there are amazing uses for. I personally like nfcs, I don’t get it, you know?

Yeah. I just don’t understand it, you know, and I’m a tech guy and I really do not understand it. Um, and people try to explain it to me, uh, and I’m, and, and I, and so I ask like, so what problem are you actually solving? Very few people can actually articulate that. And, and that’s just, you know, that, that, that’s, that’s the problem with it.

It’s, it doesn’t matter if it’s new technology and you know, you still have to explain what problem you’re solving. 

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Very true, very true. Uh, now I’m gonna move on to our rapid SI fire segment. And in this segment I’m gonna ask you a few quick questions and you them maybe in a few words or a sentence or so, one book.

Uh, I mean, you said you read a lot of books. One book recommendation for entrepreneurs, uh, and 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: why? Uh, so my two favorite books, um, in the most recent past Shoe Dog, uh, the guy that started Nike. Mm-hmm. , what an amazing book. Just one of the very few people that have actually. Honestly expressed the entrepreneurial dream.

The downs was the ups because a lot of these books, they don’t tell you about the downs. They, they tell you how they went from strength to strength to strength, you know, that’s great. You know, never happened that way. Uh, and the, I really love the Elon Musk, uh, biography. Um, tho those two are probably my favorite, but Shoe dog, probably number one.

Absolutely. 

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Are you an Elon Musk 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: fan? ? I’m a, I’m a massive Elon fan. Elon Musk fan. Uh, and, uh, I, I love what he does. I love, you know, I, I wish one day I could change the world, the way he changes the world. So, yeah. One country, 

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: uh, and an innovative product or idea in the current e-commerce retail or tech landscape that you feel excited about?

It’s not 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: so much a product, I think it’s a concept, so, um, Uh, it’s, it’s the, the ai uh, so the chat bot and the synthetic humans. So like as, um, is it, uh, Sinia AI or, um, okay. You know, that that company, that, that creates a, uh, an avatar that talks and you can do videos. I mean, that stuff is just breathtaking how realistic it is.

Um, and, uh, I, I just, I, I think that’s gonna have a huge impact. on the e-commerce world, I think it’s gonna have huge impact on the entire retail, you know, even, even physical, uh, you know, uh, like I, I see a world where we have, you know, avatars that are actually ai, you know, they’re not really humans, but they look like, and they talk like real humans, you know, taking orders even at, you know, fast food restaurants or et cetera.

So I think it’s gonna be well beyond just e-commerce, but to me, that sort of artificial, uh, chats. So chat bots. Voice bots and just, you know, um, you know, generated, you know, humans, you know, not, not real. I think that that’s gonna be very cool and exciting. 

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Uh, a business or productivity tool or software that you would recommend or a productivity tip.

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: Um, well look, I mean, Clavio, uh, you know, ManyChat, again, going back like we used a lot of that for automation. I think if you are trying to scale a business, um, I think you’ve gotta have automation and scaling, uh, built into from the ground up. And so those, those are some great tools, 

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: uh, a start business in e-commerce, retail or tech that you think they’re currently doing great things.

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: Oh, I mean, there, there are so many, um, like I said, synthia, like that, that, that business really, uh, is, is is quite amazing, um, for me. Um, and, um, yeah, it’s just, it just anything to do with, with, uh, chatbot voice bot, um, I is what gets me excited in, in this, in this. 

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: A peer entrepreneur or business person whom you look up to or someone who inspires you besides, I dunno if I call 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: Elon Musk peer

Um, but he definitely inspires me. 

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Okay. and anyone else? 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: Um, I th I think, um, there’s a lot, you know, in terms of, not so much in, in business, but in terms of what they’ve achieved, uh, you know, Lex Friedman, um, yeah. You know, he, he started, I remember watching his podcast when he was, you know, playing guitar while driving an autonomous vehicle.

Um, and I think how he approach. The whole concept, um, is, is really brilliant. So he’s very inspirational to me. And, um, but actually no, I will say, so the, it’s, it’s, it’s in different type of tech. But, um, another Aussie, um, who’s moved to the US many years ago, uh, professor David Sinclair, I think is one of the most amazing human beings, uh, in the world.

And, uh, he’s, uh, huge inspiration. 

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Um, and, uh, he’s, he’s working on the aging problem, 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: right? On anti-aging That’s right. And anti-aging, funny stories. His dad, Uh, was my dad’s boss for like, I don’t know, 10, 10, 15 years back in Australia. So I actually know Dave, we, we, we crossed path, but I was, I was, I think I was like a late, I was a teenager back then.

Um, so he probably wouldn’t remember there was like 25 plus years ago. Uh, but I’d, I’d love to, uh, he is definitely one of the people I’d love to hang out with and, and, and talk to. Are you 

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: using any of his anti-aging 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: methodology? Either? I, I, I am, I am using some of his recommendations. Uh, I’m actually 85 years old.

I dunno if you can tell. No, I’m just kidding. . Um, but, uh, yeah, I, I, I think, uh, but you know, on a serious note, I, I think if, if you think about your business and your future and your family and your, um, , um, kind of the longevity of your business and if you think, you know, if you’re gonna be around for a long time, you know, how would that change your viewpoint around, you know, patients around, you know, growth, making better decisions?

I think it, it. You know, it changes. Um, I think it changes your perspective quite, quite interestingly in business itself. So that’s, you know, we’ll see. 

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Final question, um, best business advice that you ever received or you would give to other entrepreneur? Uh, I 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: would, I would tattoo, uh, on the forehead of every entrepreneur, cash flows king.

Okay. Um, you know, I, I, it’s just, I cannot stress it well enough because that is what cost me more money, uh, more stress, uh, More gray hairs, uh, than, than, uh, anything else, any other lesson in businesses. Just, you gotta have cash flow. You gotta know your cash flow. And, and I’m still learning. Like, I’m still not like, it’s, it’s not my superpower.

Um, but, um, I wish I, you know, uh, I wish I had much better grasp of it early in my life and my entrepreneurial career. And, um, I’m still, it’s, it’s the thing I’m, I’m working the hardest on right now, uh, in, in my businesses to be, you know, really good at, uh, at that. 

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Awesome. Well, on that note, um, eager, really, really appreciate, uh, it was, uh, great talking to you.

Thank man for sharing your time. Uh, if anyone wants watching the interview, wants to purchase your products, what is the best way to, uh, to, to find, uh, 

Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: yeah, so just gotta. Www four seven golf, uh, and make sure, uh, we’ve got a great Black Friday, uh, special at the moment in massive discount. So, um, uh, you know, can, can buy there and if they wanna find out about the app, it’s uh, golf track, G O L F T R A k.app, um, and they can find a little bit more information there.

And thank you for having me. 

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Thank you. Really, really appreciate you, uh, coming on, um, sharing your time, sharing your story, and uh, yeah, thank you and all the best Igor Vainshtein of 24/7 Golf: to you. Cheers. Thanks again. Thank you.