Traveling made easy with the perfect travel backpack – Fred Perrotta of Tortuga
Fred Perrotta
Italy
contact@tortugabackpacks.com
Full-time
Open to opportunities: Yes
Founder Socials
Tortuga
Physical Location - Country: Italy
11-50 (Medium Business)
https://www.tortugabackpacks.com/
Established: January 2010
Business Type: Product
Category: Retail and Consumer Goods
Subcategory: Sporting Goods
Niche: Sporting Goods
Segments: B2C (Business-to-Consumer)
Structure: Private
Business Socials
Annual Revenue (USD)
Business Book
Productivity Tool or Tip
Inspirational Peers or Entrepreneurs
Innovative Product or Idea
Startup or Business
Best business advice
“Keep going.” Even when things get tough and the results aren’t immediate, persistence is key. Don’t be discouraged by others’ success or challenges; showing up every day and pushing forward leads to growth and success.
INTERVIEW VIDEO (Length – 57:12)
PODCAST AUDIO
Intro
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga shares how he and his partner introduced the perfect carry-on-sized backpack, making it easier to pack and travel.
Startup Story
Back in 2009, during the recession, my business partner and I took a backpacking trip through Europe. It was my first time doing international travel like that, and I’d done a lot of research beforehand to find the right gear. I ended up buying a large hiking backpack, which I quickly realized wasn’t designed for travel—it was bulky and inconvenient, especially when we were constantly packing and unpacking in hostels and on trains. That experience made me realize how poorly suited traditional hiking packs are for travel.
During the trip, we had a lot of downtime—this was before smartphones dominated everything—so we spent time talking, and backpacks came up a lot. Neither of us was happy with the ones we brought, and we started thinking, “Why isn’t there a better solution for travelers like us?” Around the same time, we’d both read The 4-Hour Workweek by Tim Ferriss, which lays out a blueprint for launching a physical product business. That got us thinking: maybe we could actually create a better travel backpack.
When we got home from Europe, the first thing I did was buy a domain name—that was the only thing I really knew how to do at the time. I had no idea how to make a backpack, but we were excited about the idea and ready to dive in. That early momentum carried us through the challenges we ran into along the way.
From the beginning, we knew we weren’t just solving our own problem—we were creating a product for people like us who love to travel but don’t want to be weighed down by gear that wasn’t made for the job. That’s how the foundation for Tuku was laid: out of personal experience, curiosity, and a desire to build something better.
Versatile Travel Gear
We wanted to create something that truly combined the best features of hiking backpacks and suitcases—something that worked well for travel, not just a suitcase with straps or a hiking pack used out of necessity. That’s how we came up with the idea of a travel backpack, designed specifically with travelers in mind.
From hiking packs, we kept the comfort and ruggedness. Our bag includes a proper hip belt to shift weight from the shoulders to the hips, making it more comfortable to carry heavy loads for long periods. We knew comfort was key, especially when you’re moving around a lot and living out of your bag.
What hiking packs lack is organization, so we borrowed that from suitcases. Our bags open from the front, like a book, allowing you to see everything at once and access individual items without having to dump everything out. This makes packing and unpacking much easier and more intuitive for travelers.
The goal was to build a backpack that feels like a hiking pack when you’re carrying it but functions like a suitcase when you’re packing. That fusion of comfort and convenience is what defines our travel backpack.
Evolving Design at Tortuga
The design definitely improved over time, especially since we started with no background in product design or manufacturing. We had to rely on third-party designers, factories, and other partners to bring our vision to life. That meant learning how to clearly communicate our ideas and what we were trying to achieve with the backpack.
Over time, we got better at articulating our needs and expectations, which helped tremendously in working with external partners. As we progressed, we also found better fits—factories and designers who understood our vision and could execute it well. With each step forward, we leveled up both our skills and our partnerships, which played a huge role in improving the product and building what we now call Versatile Travel Gear.
Travel Bag Essentials
Our main product is the travel backpack we just talked about—it’s really the core of our brand. A popular accessory that people often pair with it is our packing cubes, which help organize and segment the bag even more efficiently.
We also offer a laptop backpack, which is designed to serve as your personal item or under-seat luggage. It’s perfect as a second bag to carry alongside a suitcase, duffle, or our travel backpack—compact, functional, and ideal for keeping essentials within reach.
Niche Market Strategy
There are definitely more players in the space now, but when we first started, the only comparable options were usually single products made by outdoor brands. Companies like Osprey or REI would have one backpack targeted toward travelers, but it wasn’t their main focus—it was more of a side offering within their broader hiking gear lines.
Our original bet was that we could take that one product—something those big brands didn’t really prioritize—and do it better. We believed that if we focused entirely on making the best version of that travel backpack, there would be enough demand to build a whole company around it. What was just a niche product for them could be our main thing.
Building Tortuga Bags
We started the business as a side project. At the time, I was working at Google—supposedly one of the best places to work—but I wasn’t happy there. That made me realize that if I didn’t enjoy working at a place like that, I probably needed to find a different path. My business partner, Jeremy, was in film school and wanted to build something that could provide passive income while he pursued a filmmaking career. So we both had different motivations but a shared desire to create something of our own.
Our initial idea was to build a business that could run in the background, something sustainable that didn’t need constant attention. We started with what we knew—literally the first step was me buying a domain name. That didn’t get us far, but it was something. From there, we found a designer on Elance (which later became Upwork) and began communicating our vision: the features we wanted, who the bag was for, and what made it different. That part of the process felt pretty smooth.
The real challenge came when we started looking for someone to manufacture the bags. We had no experience in product development or manufacturing, so we quickly found ourselves in over our heads. Everyone said to make it in China, so we tried that—but with the time difference, language barrier, and our complete lack of experience, it was tough. We didn’t know how to vet factories or even how to evaluate samples.
After months of back and forth, we finally got a picture of our first sample, and it was a total disaster—it looked twice the size it should’ve been. Like many first-time founders, we went through those early horror stories of trying, failing, and learning. But that’s really what it takes: trial and error, persistence, and just continuing to move forward until things finally start to click.
Building Lasting Partnerships
One of the main challenges when working with suppliers is selling them not just on your product, but on you—your credibility and the viability of your business. Suppliers often aren’t concerned with whether your product idea will be a hit or not; that’s not really their expertise. What they care about is whether you’re going to be a reliable customer—someone who can pay for the order and is generally good to work with.
They’re likely thinking about whether you’ll be difficult—constantly requesting changes, rejecting the product, or being hard to communicate with. They’ve probably had experiences with customers who are always on the phone yelling, miss payments, or pay late. So it’s important to approach the relationship with some empathy and consider things from their perspective.
If you want a solid long-term relationship, you have to show them that you’re going to pay on time, in full, and ideally come back with more orders. From their point of view, one small order from someone who disappears afterward isn’t very valuable. What they want is a consistent customer who places regular orders, expands their product line, and becomes part of their business growth.
You can’t promise all that upfront, but you can build trust over time. That’s what we struggled with in the beginning. We tried to be proactive—paying on time, sometimes even agreeing to payment terms that were more favorable to the supplier just to earn their trust. It’s not ideal for cash flow, but that early investment in the relationship often pays off in the long run.
Bag Making Journey
At this point, we’ve been all over the world trying to get our product made. We started sampling in China, but the first prototype we received was a disaster—it was this massive, awkward backpack, and we immediately panicked. Trying to manage production from the U.S. to China felt overwhelming. Then we tried working with a U.S.-based supplier, thinking it would be easier, but they came with their own set of challenges. Local production didn’t magically solve all our problems.
Eventually, we found a supplier in Long Beach, California, and managed to produce our first 100 backpacks. The margins were terrible, but we were running out of money and needed to get something into the market. Our mindset was: let’s just make something, sell it, and learn. It was very much a minimum viable product approach—we needed to see if anyone actually wanted what we were making.
That first version of the bag was far from perfect—it was clunky, had a huge logo, and didn’t convert well. But the few people who did buy it really appreciated the functionality. It solved their travel problems and worked well in practice, even if it didn’t look great. That gave us the confidence to keep going and start iterating.
We redesigned the bag and eventually returned to manufacturing in China, working with a couple of different partners over the years. In 2017, when tariffs on Chinese imports increased, we had already started exploring Vietnam, and that shift accelerated our move there. Since then, most of our production has been in Vietnam, which—along with China—remains one of the major hubs for bag manufacturing, especially for outdoor brands.
Bootstrap Perseverance
Looking back, I definitely should have talked to someone earlier. We didn’t really approach things the right way, especially with budgeting. Until we placed that first order, everything was done on a shoestring. We were spending small amounts here and there—getting a website up, buying materials—but nothing felt like it was a big risk. It wasn’t until we had to make that major order that we realized everything was on the line.
We had bootstrapped everything up to that point, but then we received some funding from the Jewish Free Loan Association. They offer no-interest loans to support the Jewish community, and since my partner is Jewish, we were eligible. This money was intended to cover the cost of placing the order. However, as product development dragged on, the money dwindled faster than we expected, especially since we were spending on other things too. It became clear that we needed to place the order, or we would run out of money and have no way to pay it back.
Once we started selling, we probably should have set some clearer rules and boundaries. Like a lot of entrepreneurs, we were emotionally invested, so we convinced ourselves it would work out. At that point, we were only selling one or two bags a month, but the feedback was positive enough to keep us going. We knew what needed fixing in terms of the design, so we thought, “If we can just improve that, we’ll have a viable business.”
It was probably a mistake to keep pushing forward without some clear structure, but I think if we’d listened to the warning signs, we might have quit too early. There were a lot of red flags telling us to stop, but we ignored them and kept going. In the end, that decision was part of our journey, even if it wasn’t the most logical approach at the time.
Mistakes Fuel Success
It’s hard, especially in the early stages, to give concrete advice on what I would have done differently. People always ask, and while I’d love to have avoided certain mistakes, the reality is that even if someone had given me the right answer, I likely would have just made a different mistake or made the same mistake later on. It’s all part of the learning process. You can’t strategize everything upfront and expect perfect execution. Mistakes and problems are inevitable.
The learning is necessary, and I don’t think there’s a perfect formula. I know I could have benefited from setting clear parameters—if this happens, then we move forward; if that happens, then we stop. But there’s also something valuable about being a little naive as an entrepreneur. Sometimes you need to believe in something more than the evidence might suggest, especially in the early days. That belief can drive you forward. Of course, some people take it too far, but I’d lean more toward encouraging that passion-driven approach early on.
There’s definitely a point where you need rules to guide your decisions, and you don’t want to be stuck in that mindset for ten years, hoping things will change. But if you’ve given it some time—maybe a year—and you can see what needs to change for things to work, then you should keep going. If, on the other hand, the evidence piles up that it’s not going to work, then eventually you need to listen to that evidence and pivot or stop.
Turning Point for Tortuga
The biggest turning point for us was when we redesigned our bag. Before that, the first version was pretty rough, and the sales were, as you put it, sporadic. A nice way to put it! But in 2013, we released Version 2 of the bag. We made some key changes—smaller logo, improved design—and launched it with a pre-sale campaign. Right away, we saw more consistent sales. We even had a bit of a waitlist.
By the end of 2013 and into the next year, we were making solid revenue, enough to show that we could earn real money every day. It wasn’t huge, but it was a baseline that gave us confidence. That redesign and relaunch marked the moment we realized that this could actually become a viable business. It went from being an idea to something we could build on.
Evolving Business Dreams
For us, it’s been a constant cycle of setting higher goals. Every time we hit one target, we just move up to the next one, pushing ourselves further. When we started, we thought advertising would drive the traffic to our site. I had worked at Google, so I was confident in my ability to run ads. But the first version of our bag was pretty rough, and it didn’t convert well. That made the ads unprofitable, so we had to pivot and focus more on content marketing instead.
As the business grew, our ambitions grew too. Once we started making progress, we wanted to do more—add new products, grow the team, and solve more problems. It’s been a fun journey, and we’re still enjoying it. We keep raising our level of ambition instead of settling or stepping back. We’re just driven to keep moving forward and doing more in the business.
Travel Bags Reimagined
We’ve definitely broadened our target audience over time. When we started, we had this vision of catering to young backpackers, the kind of college students traveling on a budget, staying in hostels, and roughing it. But as the business grew, we found that our product appeals to a much wider age range. We still serve the students and backpackers, but now we also have retirees and people who weren’t sure if they could carry a backpack for travel because of their age—but they love it because it’s so comfortable.
We’ve expanded beyond just backpackers to include digital nomads, weekend travelers, and even people who travel for work, like salespeople. So, while we’ve grown our audience, we still remain focused on the travel category. That’s been really important to us, especially because, when we started, many outdoor brands made one travel bag or offered a broad range of bags for different uses. By focusing solely on travel bags, we’ve been able to carve out a niche, focus our marketing efforts, and build a community around travel-specific needs. It’s been a key part of how we’ve grown and differentiated ourselves.
Pivoting in a Pandemic
We started our business in 2009, during a recession, and we’ve made it through a pandemic, so I’m hoping we’ll make it through whatever comes next. It’s been a tough ride, especially for a company in the travel industry. When the pandemic hit, travel essentially came to a halt, which was a huge blow to our business. Our main customers were people buying new luggage for big trips—like international travel, backpacking in Europe, or going on long honeymoons. When travel disappeared, so did the need for our products.
Even our smaller bags, meant for things like work or school, became less relevant. Sales plummeted, and we had to lay off a lot of our team. We tried all sorts of different strategies to keep the business afloat, cutting costs and figuring out how to pivot. Once we got some stability, we shifted our focus to what the business could look like post-pandemic. Instead of just trying to survive, we decided to take this as an opportunity to rethink the future of the company.
We spent the last couple of years planning the next phase, using our 12 years of experience to guide us. While the pandemic was tough, we saw it as a reset—a chance to rebuild and innovate. It wasn’t starting from scratch, but we did approach it as though we were creating a new version of the business, one that would be more resilient and better suited for what comes next.
Travel Gear Evolution
There’s definitely some risk involved, especially in the travel industry. There have been times before when things hurt the industry—like when gas prices rise, people travel less, and air travel gets more expensive. So, there are always risks to manage in any business. Hopefully, we won’t see anything as drastic as the 80% drop in air travel that happened during the pandemic, but you just have to be prepared for whatever comes.
During the pandemic, we had around 20 SKUs, and we had to make some tough decisions. We moved some products to Amazon, liquidated others through third-party sellers (which didn’t offer great returns but gave us cash), and ultimately decided to simplify. We shrunk our product line with the idea of becoming leaner and more manageable. The goal was to grow differently post-pandemic.
Before, we had three collections at different price points—premium, budget, and a middle-tier option. The issue we ran into was that we were like the mattress companies in D2C—we were good at making that first sale, but not as good at getting repeat customers. People buy a good bag, but then they don’t need another one for a long time, sometimes five years or more. So, we decided to pivot. We’re going to focus on smaller, more versatile bags and accessories. These are things customers can use with their larger bags or for other purposes like work and school. We’ll still focus on travel, but by offering products that are smaller and more functional, we can cater to more needs.
We’ve got some exciting new products launching at the beginning of 2023, and we plan to roll out even more next year. It’s all part of our strategy to create a more sustainable, growth-oriented business.
Crafting Brand Reliability
We try to balance both approaches, depending on the product. When we first started, I had the mentality that every new product had to be as innovative and groundbreaking as our first travel backpack. I wanted everything to be super unique, always reinventing the wheel. While there are businesses that operate like this, it’s not really how most successful companies work. Innovation is important, but it doesn’t always have to be at the scale of creating a whole new category.
Sometimes, you can make money with simpler products by understanding the market and seeing what people are already buying. You don’t have to copy what’s out there, but you can add your unique perspective or just improve on existing ideas. The key is that, if you’ve built up your brand and earned customer trust, people will want to buy from you even if the product isn’t a revolutionary game-changer. They trust your quality, and if they already have a bag from you, they’ll want to buy more from your brand.
So, we’ve found a better balance by not being too strict or idealistic about reinventing everything. There are existing product categories people love, and we can put our spin on them, making them a little bit unique without having to completely rethink the wheel every time. Some entrepreneurs don’t mind competing in markets with multiple brands selling similar products, and while I’ve had a designer’s mindset of needing to change the world with every product, sometimes it’s okay to just make a great packing cube. It’s a simple product, but people love it for organizing their things. If they want it, we can be the ones to sell it to them.
Tortuga’s Sales Journey
We primarily sell through our own store, with a bit of sales on Amazon as well. We’ve experimented with a few other platforms, but they didn’t have a major impact. When we started, we thought about getting into physical stores, partly because of a strategy outlined in The 4-Hour Workweek. I think Tim Ferriss tried to get his supplements into GNC or another store to build a relationship. That was our initial idea too—we made calls and reached out, but of course, we were ignored. At that stage, we didn’t have a product or experience, and we weren’t great at selling to buyers, so we didn’t make much progress.
So, we focused on building our own website and have just kept that going. Selling big-ticket items online has its challenges, especially when people want to try things on before purchasing. Our products need to fit well, so we’ve done what we can to make the process easier, like allowing people to try the bags at home and offering a 30-day return policy. While there are trade-offs to not being in stores, we’re managing it. We may revisit the idea of retail stores in the future, but for now, our online presence remains the focus.
Content Strategy Success
We’ve always been driven by content and SEO. We do a little bit of social media, but what’s really worked well for us is sharing our knowledge and helping our customers. While some social media channels, like TikTok, can be informative, a lot of the content there is more entertainment-focused. We’ve always done better by providing value to people—whether that’s suggesting ways to pack, places to visit, how to fit and carry your bag comfortably, or simply sharing travel tips. Education has always been more effective for us than entertainment.
Because of this focus, we’ve tended to concentrate on content channels we can own. From the start, we’ve built our business around owning the site and blog, which gives us more control. We’ve put more faith in those channels than in platforms like Facebook, especially as we’ve seen the cost of acquiring customers rise and the impact of updates like iOS 14. These changes in the ad world have made me appreciate even more what we’ve built with content and SEO.
Simplifying Global Shipping
Right now, we’re primarily focused on the U.S. We’ve worked with a distributor in Europe, but our main market is still the U.S. We used to ship internationally more, but there were some complications. We work with a 3PL (third-party logistics) provider for warehousing and shipping, but international shipping, especially to Europe, has proven to be difficult.
The big issue was that customers often didn’t realize they would have to pay import duties, which added significant costs. Shipping from the U.S. is expensive for large bags, and the process was slow. So, customers would end up paying a lot more than they expected for the bag, and many were unhappy with the experience. This led to a lot of customer service issues, with people frustrated by the hidden costs or delays. As a result, we decided to scale back on international shipping and focus just on the U.S. We have a better plan now and will revisit international shipping once we can offer a clearer and more upfront cost structure with faster delivery times.
As for our team, we’ve had to scale down as well. We’ve reduced our SKUs and had to lay off some people. Currently, our team consists of four people: myself, my co-founder, and a few people handling marketing and customer support.
Mastering Cash Flow
I think it’s a balance between marketing and operations, especially when it comes to cash flow and inventory management. When something’s working, and people like it, you naturally want to ramp up marketing. But it’s easy to fall into a trap where your marketing is so successful that you can’t keep up with stock. There’s also the risk of growing without properly managing margins, where the more you grow, the worse off you become financially.
Cash flow becomes a huge challenge. You might look profitable, but a lot of that “profit” is just being used to buy more inventory. So, as you grow and improve marketing, it’s essential to stay on top of the financial side—ensuring that the cost of your products and marketing still leaves enough for reinvestment in inventory. Otherwise, you could run into trouble despite success in marketing, as the financial fundamentals aren’t properly managed.
Mistakes Made and Lessons Learned
We’ve definitely made our fair share of mistakes, and I’m sure there are more to come. That’s been a big part of how we’ve learned. I remember when we first tried to create our product—it was tough, but once we found something that started gaining momentum, we hit another issue. We went from not being able to sell our product to it selling out fast, and since we were still growing, we couldn’t place big orders. We’d do a small batch, announce it, and it would sell out that same day. The problem was, we’d then be sold out for months while waiting for the next order to come in.
It was a flip of the problem, but I think the lesson here is that when things start to click and you get that momentum, it can happen suddenly. You need to be ready for it, but you can’t overplan or over-engineer. Ordering 10,000 units instead of 1,000 would have been a mistake without the proof of product-market fit at that point. Looking back, we could have been smarter about finding extra funds to scale up faster, or maybe we should’ve raised the price to manage the demand better.
At the time, we were just so grateful to be selling anything that the focus was mainly on keeping up with the orders. But the experience taught me a lot about being adaptable, learning from both failure and success, and making quick decisions to respond to the situation at hand.
Rapid Fire Segment
I recommend two books for entrepreneurs or business professionals. First, This is Not a T-Shirt by Bobby Hundreds, the founder of The Hundreds streetwear brand. It’s all about creating a brand rooted in culture and community. The second is The Box, which dives into the invention of the shipping container and how it revolutionized global trade and economics—an essential read if you’re involved in importing or using shipping containers.
For e-commerce and tech, I’m really excited about Airtable. It’s a versatile tool that’s like a database but feels lighter, almost like using Google Docs. It’s been incredibly useful for various parts of my business. As for productivity tools, I rely heavily on Text Expander, which lets me create shortcuts for common tasks like replying to emails or sharing URLs. It saves me so much time, especially when I use it multiple times a day.
A startup that’s been doing great in the e-commerce space is Western Rise. They started with performance clothing, but now they’ve expanded into more technical products like rain shells. It’s exciting to see a brand level up from basics to more complex products, showing real innovation.
One of my biggest sources of inspiration is the podcast My First Million, hosted by Sam Parr and Shaan Puri. I listen to it a lot and find their conversations about business and new ideas really motivating. It helps me think creatively and push forward with my own projects. Lastly, my best business advice is to just keep going, even when things get tough. Entrepreneurship is full of challenges, but if you persist, you’ll eventually create something valuable.
Best Business Advice
One of the best pieces of advice I’ve received is to just keep going. It might seem obvious, but it’s crucial—especially when things aren’t taking off right away. I live near Silicon Valley, where I often see businesses raising millions, and that can be discouraging. It’s easy to think that if you’re not seeing that kind of success, you’re not doing enough or you’re not good enough, and that can lead to giving up.
But the truth is, challenges are a part of the journey. Every business has its ups and downs, and you’ll always face hurdles. What matters is persistence. If you keep showing up, putting in the work, and pushing forward, you’ll eventually create something worthwhile. It’s not about avoiding problems; it’s about facing them head-on and continuing to move forward.
Episode Summary
Fred Perrotta, CEO and co-founder of Tortuga, shares the story of how he and his business partner developed the perfect travel backpack. Inspired by the book “Four Hour Work Week,” they set out to create a durable and convenient backpack that combined the best features of a hiking bag and a suitcase. Initially struggling with manufacturing and funding, Tortuga eventually found success by redesigning their product and focusing on their primary target market: travelers. However, the COVID-19 pandemic led to a decline in sales, causing the company to shift its focus to leaner, simpler products and restructuring their three collections to target a broader audience. Perrotta emphasizes the importance of balance in innovation and building brand trust, while also sharing his entrepreneurial insights and advice for aspiring business owners.
Episode Overview
- Host: Sushant Misra
- Guest: Fred Perrotta, Founder and CEO of Tortuga
- Topic: Fred’s entrepreneurial journey, the founding and growth of Tortuga (a company offering travel backpacks, packing cubes, and laptop backpacks), and strategies for building an e-commerce business.
- Key Themes: Niche product development, persistence through challenges, content-driven marketing, manufacturing struggles, and adapting to crises like the COVID-19 pandemic.
- Recording Context: Recorded in 2022, with the interview reflecting on Tortuga’s 13-year journey since its founding in 2009.
- Business Overview: Tortuga designs travel-specific backpacks that combine the comfort of hiking packs with the organization of suitcases, targeting travelers from backpackers to digital nomads and retirees.
Key Sections
1. Origin Story and Motivation
- Background: In 2009, during the global recession, Fred Perrotta and his co-founder, Jeremy, took a backpacking trip across Europe. They used large hiking backpacks, which were designed for outdoor activities, not urban travel, leading to daily frustrations with packing and unpacking.
- Pain Point: The hiking backpacks were uncomfortable for travel, lacked organization, and were impractical for hostel stays and train travel. Fred, a self-described “nerdy” researcher, couldn’t find a suitable travel-specific backpack before the trip.
- Inspiration: Influenced by Tim Ferriss’s The 4-Hour Workweek, which outlined building a physical product business, Fred and Jeremy saw an opportunity to create a better travel backpack. They discussed the idea during train rides in Europe, leveraging their downtime to brainstorm.
- Initial Steps: Upon returning, Fred purchased the domain name tortugabackpacks.com (Tortuga, Spanish for “turtle,” symbolizing carrying everything on your back). The business started as a side hustle, with Fred working at Google (where he felt unfulfilled despite its reputation) and Jeremy in film school, aiming for passive income to support their respective goals (filmmaking for Jeremy, an alternative career path for Fred).
2. Product Development and Early Challenges
- Lack of Expertise: Neither Fred nor Jeremy had experience in design or manufacturing, making product development a steep learning curve.
- Design Process: They hired a designer through Elance (now Upwork) to create initial backpack designs, combining hiking pack comfort (e.g., hip belts to distribute weight) with suitcase-like organization (front-loading access for easy unpacking). The goal was a hybrid “travel backpack” for urban travelers.
- Manufacturing Struggles:
- China Attempt: Initially advised to manufacture in China, they faced language barriers, time zone differences, and vetting challenges. Their first sample was comically oversized, described as “twice the size of the person wearing it,” leading to months of wasted effort.
- U.S. Pivot: Frustrated, they switched to a manufacturer in Long Beach, California, producing 100 backpacks. However, high U.S. production costs limited profitability.
- First Product: The initial backpack (launched pre-2013) was “very ugly” with a large logo and design flaws, resulting in low conversion rates. Despite this, early customers appreciated the concept, validating the idea.
- Minimum Viable Product (MVP): Facing dwindling funds, they launched the imperfect product to test market demand, following a lean startup approach. Feedback confirmed the need for a redesign.
3. Turning Point: 2013 Redesign
- Redesign (V2): In 2013, Tortuga launched a redesigned backpack with a smaller logo, improved aesthetics, and better functionality. This version addressed customer feedback and marked a turning point.
- Sales Impact: Pre-sales and a waitlist showed promise, and post-launch, sales became consistent (not just “one or two bags a month”). By late 2013/early 2014, Tortuga achieved five-figure revenue, signaling the business’s viability.
- Key Insight: The redesign proved that focusing on a niche (travel-specific backpacks) and iterating based on feedback could transform a struggling idea into a sustainable business.
4. Business Strategy and Evolution
- Niche Focus: Tortuga differentiated itself from outdoor brands (e.g., Osprey, REI), which treated travel bags as secondary products. By focusing solely on travel, Tortuga built a brand around solving traveler-specific problems.
- Product Line:
- Core Products (2022): Travel backpack (main product), packing cubes (for organization), and a laptop backpack (for personal items or under-seat luggage).
- Evolution: Initially a single-product company, Tortuga expanded to 20+ SKUs but streamlined to three core products post-COVID to simplify operations.
- Future Plans: In 2023, Tortuga planned to launch smaller, versatile accessories and bags to encourage repeat purchases, addressing the challenge of infrequent backpack replacements (bags last 5+ years).
- Manufacturing Journey:
- China (Post-U.S.): After the initial U.S. batch, Tortuga manufactured in China for years, improving quality and cost.
- Vietnam (2017): U.S.-China tariffs in 2017 prompted a shift to Vietnam, a hub for outdoor brands, where production continues.
- Marketing Strategy:
- Initial Approach: Planned to use Google Ads (leveraging Fred’s Google experience), but the first bag’s poor design made ads unprofitable.
- Shift to Content Marketing: Tortuga pivoted to SEO and content marketing, focusing on educational content (e.g., packing tips, travel guides, fitting advice). This approach built trust and reduced reliance on paid ads or platforms like Facebook.
- Philosophy: Emphasized “helping people travel better” over entertainment, avoiding trends like TikTok in favor of owned channels (website, blog).
- Sales Channels:
- Primary: Direct-to-consumer (D2C) via tortugabackpacks.com and some Amazon sales.
- Retail Attempts: Early efforts to enter retail (e.g., stores like GNC, per The 4-Hour Workweek) failed due to inexperience. Tortuga now mitigates D2C fit concerns with a 30-day return policy but plans to revisit retail.
- Fulfillment:
- U.S. Focus: Primarily ships in the U.S. via a third-party logistics (3PL) provider for storage and shipping.
- International Challenges: Previously shipped globally, but high shipping costs, import duties, and slow delivery led to customer dissatisfaction, prompting a U.S.-focused strategy. Plans to improve international shipping with transparent costs.
5. Impact of COVID-19
- Business Impact: The pandemic devastated Tortuga’s sales, as international travel (their core market) dropped ~80%. Demand for smaller bags (e.g., for work/school) also declined.
- Response:
- Team Reduction: Laid off most of the team, shrinking to four members (Fred, Jeremy, and marketing/support staff).
- Inventory Management: Liquidated excess SKUs via Amazon and third parties, reducing from 20+ to three core products.
- Cost-Cutting: Streamlined operations to survive the downturn.
- Strategic Reset: Used the crisis as an opportunity to redesign the business for a post-COVID world, focusing on lean operations, new versatile products, and preparing for travel’s recovery.
6. Financing and Bootstrapping
- Bootstrapping: Tortuga was self-funded initially, with Fred and Jeremy covering early costs (e.g., domain, website, design).
- Loan: Secured a no-interest loan from the Jewish Free Loan Association (via Jeremy’s eligibility), used to fund the first U.S. production run. Delays in development nearly depleted this, forcing the MVP launch.
- No Clear Exit Plan: Lacked predefined criteria for abandoning the business, relying on passion and customer feedback to persist despite early struggles.
7. Team and Co-Founder’s Goals
- Current Team (2022): Four members, including Fred, Jeremy, and staff in marketing and customer support.
- Co-Founder’s Journey: Jeremy, a screenwriter and director, achieved his filmmaking goals, writing multiple screenplays and producing one movie while continuing with Tortuga, balancing both passions.
8. Key Lessons and Mistakes
- Mistakes:
- Early Manufacturing: Wasted months on an oversized sample from China and faced high costs in the U.S.
- Inventory Mismanagement: Post-2013, rapid sell-outs (same-day stockouts, three-month gaps) highlighted poor inventory planning. Fred suggests raising prices or securing funding to scale faster could have helped.
- No Clear Criteria: Lacked rules to evaluate whether to continue or pivot, relying on optimism, which risked sunk-cost fallacies.
- Lessons for Entrepreneurs:
- Persistence with Adaptability: Persevere through setbacks, but balance passion with evidence-based decisions. Fred ignored early “red lights” but used feedback to iterate.
- Operational Balance: Marketing success must align with inventory and cash flow management to avoid stockouts or losses from over-scaling.
- Learning Through Mistakes: Mistakes (e.g., poor design, manufacturing woes) are inevitable for product-based businesses. Embrace trial and error while seeking better partners (designers, factories).
- Customer-Centric Manufacturing: Build trust with manufacturers by paying on time, accepting favorable terms initially, and proving reliability to secure long-term partnerships.
9. Rapid-Fire Segment
- Book Recommendations (2022):
- This Is Not a T-Shirt by Bobby Hundreds: On building a brand from community and culture (relevant for niche branding).
- The Box by Marc Levinson: Chronicles the shipping container’s impact on global trade, useful for importers.
- Innovative Tool: Airtable, a versatile, user-friendly database (like a lightweight Google Docs alternative) used for business operations.
- Productivity Tool: TextExpander, for automating repetitive text (e.g., URLs, email replies), though customer service tools often have similar features.
- Admired Business: Western Rise, a performance clothing brand, for progressing from t-shirts to technical outerwear (e.g., a rain shell via Kickstarter).
- Inspiring Entrepreneurs: Sam Parr and Sean Puri of the My First Million podcast, for sparking new ideas through engaging discussions.
- Best Business Advice: “Keep going” despite setbacks, as persistence often leads to breakthroughs, though avoid blind optimism by adapting to evidence.
10. Advice for Entrepreneurs
- Starting Out: Embrace some naivety and passion early on, but set loose boundaries (e.g., a one-year evaluation period) to assess viability. Avoid over-planning, as mistakes are part of learning.
- Product Development: Focus on customer-validated products but don’t expect every SKU to reinvent the wheel. Accessories (e.g., packing cubes) can drive revenue without requiring groundbreaking innovation.
- Scaling: Balance marketing with operations. Success can strain cash flow if inventory isn’t scaled appropriately. Consider pricing adjustments or funding to manage demand spikes.
- Niche Focus: Specializing in a category (e.g., travel) allows deeper customer connection and effective content marketing, but diversify within the niche (e.g., smaller bags) to mitigate risks like travel industry downturns.
11. How to Connect with Tortuga
- Website: tortugabackpacks.com
- Brand Name Origin: “Tortuga” (Spanish for turtle) reflects carrying everything on your back, like a turtle’s shell.
- Purchase: Available primarily through their website and Amazon, with a 30-day return policy to address fit concerns.
Key Takeaways
- Niche Success: Tortuga’s focus on travel-specific backpacks carved a niche ignored by larger outdoor brands, proving that specialization can build a viable business.
- Iterative Improvement: Early failures (ugly design, manufacturing issues) were overcome through customer feedback and a critical 2013 redesign.
- Resilience: Surviving the 2009 recession and COVID-19 required adaptability, cost-cutting, and a forward-looking reset.
- Content-Driven Growth: SEO and educational content outperformed paid ads, aligning with Tortuga’s mission to help travelers.
- Entrepreneurial Mindset: Persistence, balanced with strategic pivots, is key. Mistakes are learning opportunities, but operational discipline (inventory, cash flow) is critical for scaling.
- 00:00:00 In this section, Fred Perrotta, the founder and CEO of Tortuga, shares the story of how he and his business partner came up with the idea for the perfect travel backpack. While backpacking in Europe, they realized that their hiking bags were not great for travel and thought there could be a better solution. Inspired by the book “Four Hour Work Week,” they began the process of creating a travel backpack that would combine the best features of a hiking bag and a suitcase. The result was Tortuga, which helps travelers avoid the cost and hassle of checking luggage with carry-on size travel backpacks and day packs.
- 00:05:00 In this section, Fred Perrotta describes the development of Tortuga, a travel backpack, and how it was designed to be comfortable and rugged like a hiking pack, while still being convenient like a suitcase with effective organization. The company’s design and manufacturing processes improved over time as it worked with third parties and found suitable partners. Tortuga has three main products: the travel backpack, packing cubes, and a laptop backpack for personal items. Despite increased competition in the travel backpack space, Tortuga has focused on building a company around making one superior product that larger outdoor brands did not fully target. Fred and his co-founder Jeremy started this venture as a side hustle, with Fred working at Google and Jeremy in film school.
- 00:10:00 In this section, Fred Perrotta, co-founder of Tortuga, talks about the challenges they faced when starting their backpack business and finding a manufacturer. He explains that finding the right manufacturer and selling them on the viability of the business is the biggest challenge. Manufacturers don’t care about the product or whether it will succeed or fail, but they are interested in good customers who pay on time and place regular orders. Therefore, a good relationship with the manufacturer is crucial, which requires building trust by paying on time and accepting more friendly payment terms initially.
- 00:15:00 In this section, Fred Perrotta, co-founder of Tortuga, discusses their journey of manufacturing their travel backpack. Initially, they sampled in China but found the manufacturing process too difficult and eventually found a supplier in the US. However, they had to manufacture at higher prices, which reduced their profit. They released the first version of the bag, which wasn’t aesthetically pleasing, but still functional, giving them enough validation to redesign their product. Later on, they began to manufacture in China until tariff increases forced them to explore manufacturing in Vietnam. Tortuga didn’t have a criteria or a budget for the minimum viable product when developing their bag, but they realized they needed a better system after running out of funding for product development.
- 00:20:00 In this section, Fred Perrotta of Tortuga reflects on the mistakes they made while starting their business and how it may have been helpful to have rules in place to prevent impulsive decisions. However, he also acknowledges that learning from mistakes is a necessary part of the process and that being a little naive may have its value when starting out. Perrotta believes that following one’s passion and being okay with being driven by their heart over their head at first is valuable as long as they eventually listen to the evidence and make changes accordingly. The turning point for Tortuga was when they received enough positive feedback and made the necessary changes to their product to gain traction with customers.
- 00:25:00 In this section, Fred Perrotta talks about the growth of Tortuga, particularly the turning point when they redesigned their bag to fix some issues and launched it in 2013. This redesign allowed for consistent sales and real profit, indicating that the business could potentially become a full-time career. While their initial goal was to generate passive income, Tortuga’s ambitions grew with each goal they achieved, leading to the addition of more products, employee expansion, and targeting a wider range of age groups and travel styles. Despite the expansion, the primary target market remains the travel demographic.
- 00:30:00 In this section, Fred Perrotta discusses how the COVID-19 pandemic affected the travel industry and his travel backpack business. He admits that it was a tough time for the business with the main reason people buying their bags waning off, leading to a decline in sales and subsequent layoffs. They tried several strategies to keep the business going and cut costs after stabilizing. Afterward, the company shifted its focus to build the post-pandemic version of the business using their 12 years of experience to their advantage. They decided to shrink down from having 20 SKU’s to leaner, simpler versions, and restructured their three collections to target a broader audience.
- 00:35:00 In this section, Fred Perrotta talks about the challenge of product-based businesses, particularly when expanding beyond the hero product. While still focused on travel, the company plans to create smaller bags and accessories to serve varying needs. Initially, there was a strong focus on uniqueness and innovation similar to the first travel backpack. However, they have since realized the importance of having balance and not strictly adhering to idealism. Fred also talks about building brand trust so that customers would still buy from them, even if they release products that others have made. They primarily sell through their website but are open to retail options.
- 00:40:00 In this section, Fred Perrotta discusses the challenges of selling a big purchase item without a relationship with stores and the trade-offs of not being in stores as a retailer. He also shares their primary marketing channel, which is content and SEO, and their preference for channels they own, such as their site and blog. Lastly, he talks about their primary shipping location, primarily in the US, and the complications around international shipping, including costly import duties that have led to unhappy customers.
- 00:45:00 In this section, Fred Perrotta, co-founder of Tortuga, discusses some of the mistakes and lessons learned in his journey as an entrepreneur. He explains that when a product starts gaining traction, it can be sudden, and business owners need to be ready for that momentum. However, it’s also important to balance marketing with proper inventory management, operational procedures, and cash flow. Fred cites an instance in which their product kept selling out, but they couldn’t order too much at a time, and thus had to sell out for months before they had more in stock. Despite making every mistake possible, Fred believes that entrepreneurs can learn from their mistakes and successes and make the right decisions for their current problem.
- 00:50:00 In this section, Fred Perrotta, the co-founder of Tortuga, discusses some of the important aspects of business growth beyond just marketing. He emphasizes the need to manage finances and understand the flow of cash through the business, as well as being aware of the cost of products. Perrotta then quickly answers a series of rapid-fire questions, offering book recommendations such as Bobby Hundred’s “This is not a T-shirt,” and productivity tools like Text Expander. When asked about a company in e-commerce that he admires, Perrotta mentions Western Rise, a performance clothing brand that he is connected to. Finally, Perrotta shares his admiration for the podcast “My First Million” and its hosts, who inspire him with their entrepreneurial conversations.
- 00:55:00 In this section, Fred Perrotta advises aspiring entrepreneurs to keep going and not give up when their business doesn’t take off immediately or when they see others doing better. He notes that there will be challenges in any business venture, but persistence and dedication will eventually pay off. Perrotta also directs viewers to his website, tortugabackpacks.com, where they can purchase his travel backpacks.
People & Resources Mentioned in the Episode
Book: This Is Not a T-Shirt by Bobby Hundreds; The Box by Marc Levinson
What You’ll Learn
Interview with Fred Perrotta of Tortuga
00:08 | Introduction |
00:56 | The business motivation |
06:56 | The product |
09:09 | The entrepreneurial journey |
12:18 | Manufacturing |
24:18 | The turning point |
29:00 | Target Market |
34:50 | The covid impact |
39:47 | Sales channels |
43:17 | Fulfillment and shipping |
46:08 | Mistakes made, lessons learned |
50:38 | Rapid fire round |
Rapid Fire
In this segment, the guest will answer a few questions quickly in one or two sentences.
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga
- Book recommendation that you would make to entrepreneurs or business professionals (Response: This Is Not a T-Shirt; The Box)
- An innovative product or idea and the current eCommerce, retail, or tech landscape that you feel excited about (Response: Airtable)
- A business or productivity tip that you would recommend (Response: Text Expander)
- A startup or business and eCommerce retailer tech that you think is currently doing great things (Response: Western Rise)
- A peer entrepreneur or business person whom you look up to or someone who inspires you (Response: Sam Par; Sean Purey)
- Best business advice you ever received (Response: If you keep going and keep showing up and keep putting your all into it every day, then you’re gonna make something out of it)
Interview Transcript
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Hey, they’re entrepreneurs. My name is Sushant and welcome to Trep Talks. This is the show where I interview successful e-commerce entrepreneurs, business executives, and thought leaders, and ask them questions about their business story, and also dive deep into some of the strategies and tactics that they used to start and grow their businesses.
And today I’m really excited to welcome Fred Prota to the show. Fred is the founder and CEO of Toga. Toga helps travelers avoid the cost and hassle of checking luggage with carry onsites, travel backpacks, and dayaks. And today I’m going to ask Fred a few questions about his entrepreneurial journey and some of the strategies and tactics that he has used to start to grow his business.
So thank you so much for your time today, Fred. Really appreciate
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: you joining us at Yeah, of course. Thank you for inviting me and for having me. Definitely.
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: So, I mean, your business has been running for some time. I believe you started in 2009 or 2010, somewhere around that time. So it’s been like almost 13 years.
Can you share, I mean, do you even remember the story, your startup story, the motivation that got you started?
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: I do, you, uh, you know, you always have to be able to, uh, to repeat it to folks. So, uh, it’s important to to remember that a lot of things I’ve forgotten from them, but I do remember that, um, yeah, Tuku is kind of a, a scratch or niche kind of business.
Um, my business partner and I went on a trip, uh, backpacking Europe in 2009. Uh, that was during the recession. Flights were pretty cheap, so, uh, we took a little vacation and it was my first time really backpacking, traveling internationally, taking a longer trip like that. Um, and, uh, I’m kind of nerdy. I like to do the research, so I was trying to find the right bag before the trip, um, and bought kind of a big hiking bag, which is what most backpackers get.
Uh, and then went on the trip and quickly realized those big bags are really for hiking. They’re kind of for the outdoor industry, not for traveling. So, um, had a bit of a pain to deal with that every day. So, I would open it up, dump everything out, get what I needed, repack the whole thing. So packing and unpacking every day.
We were staying in hostels, taking trains, so, uh, kind of roughing it. Um, and just learned that those weren’t great bags for traveling. Uh, but we had a lot of free time. This was sort of early, uh, mobile phones and internet and all that. So, um, we weren’t just on our phones, on our, uh, train trips. We were actually, uh, talking and kind of got around to, to talking a lot about the backpacks because the ones we brought, we didn’t love for traveling and, you know, thought there could be a better solution.
We had both just read the four hour work week, um, if you’re familiar with that book. So, yeah. Uh, in that book, Tim Ver kind of lays out how to build a, a physical product business. So we thought, okay, we’ve got this idea, uh, around backpacks. We’ve got this book. We could just do what he says to do and, you know, put it together and.
We’ll be rich and successful. Right. So, uh, came back from our trip, came back from Europe, um, bought a domain name. That was the first thing I did. Cause that was the only thing I knew how to do. didn’t know how to make a backpack, but, uh, yeah, we came back, we’re all excited about it, and that got us, um, uh, started on the process so that by the time we ran and told the problems that you inevitably run into, we were, uh, uh, we were excited about it and, uh, decided to, to push through those problems and solve them.
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: You know, it’s so interesting that Tim Ferris, you know, if you look at the whole internet industry and the, the,
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: the advent of
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: internet and, you know, the e-commerce and so forth, uh, there’s like technology and social media platforms that kinda propelled that, that enabled businesses to come like from offline to online.
But, you know, people like Tim Ferris were kind of like the catalyst, you know, they played the role of, I guess, motivating people or showing them. Um, the way that it can be done easily. And, uh, and so I, I’m sure there are so many people who were motivated by four hour work week to, uh, to build the business.
Um, and, and you know, myself also like when traveling, uh, you know, I’ve probably made the same mistake, right? You, you buy the, the big backpack and then everything is in there. Nothing is organized. Can you share a little bit about the difference of what, what a travel backpack is versus, uh, a hike, hiking backpack?
Is travel backpack really something that compartmentalizes different things? So, you know, everything is organized and, you know, easy to find.
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: Yeah. So we wanted to combine. Uh, those hiking bags, which they don’t work well for travel, but they do have some good features. There’s a reason people do travel with them.
We wanted to combine sort of the best of those with the best parts of a suitcase and put it together into something that worked well and wasn’t just a suitcase with a couple straps on it. So, um, like a hiking pack. So we, we call it a travel backpack. And what that means to us is that, uh, similar to a hiking pack in that it’s comfortable, uh, and really rugged, so you know, you’re carrying it on your back.
That’s a lot of weight. Um, it needs to be comfortable. You, it has a hip belt, so that’ll take some of the weight off your shoulders, put on your hips because your legs are stronger than, than your shoulders. Um, so we want it to be comfortable and convenient like that. The problem is the organization. So, um, we also brought in some elements of a suitcase in that, uh, our bags all, they open from the front, so it opens like a book.
Uh, that way you can see, see all your stuff laid out as if you know, like it works in a suitcase. You can see it all laid out. You can grab one item if that’s all you need. Everything else stays in place. You can organize it all however you like to pack. So, uh, kind of laid out like a suitcase, but carries and is comfortable like a hiking pack.
So wanted to to bring those together into one product.
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: And, and that was the vision from the very beginning? Or did that vision like evolve over
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: time? Um, or,
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: or was that was the original vision. Vision, but you know, your design
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: improved over time. Yeah, the design certainly improved over time because we had no background in designing or manufacturing or anything, so had to work with third parties and, uh, designers and factories and things like that.
So, um, did that and got better at how to communicate to those third parties that we had to use, uh, how to communicate our ideas on what we wanted. Um, and then, you know, found good partners for us at each stage along the journey as, as we kind of leveled up, would find the right great fit in terms of factories and designers.
So, uh, we had to get better and then find the right partners to work on those things. And right
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: now, like as a business, how many products? I believe on your website, this I, I, I found like three main products. Are those the main products that you’re selling right now?
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: Yep. So we have the, the travel backpack, like we just talked about a minute ago.
That’s kind of our, our main product, uh, common accessory people like to buy are packing cubes, which just lets you organize and segment your bag a little bit more. And then we also have a laptop backpack, so that’s more for, uh, personal item or undersea luggage. So kind of your second bag that you would carry with a suitcase or with a duffle bag or something like that.
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: And so when you started, like 12, 13 years ago, o obviously this, you know, it, it may have been like an innovative product or a new kind of a product or a product
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: aim towards a certain niche or
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: target audience. But, but now, 12, 13 years down the road, what do you find? Like, do you think that this, um, you know, there’s so a lot of products out there that are targeting the, the
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: travel, um, that,
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: that, that, you know, the traveler,
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: um, and do you find like your.
Um, you have a lot of competition. Yeah, there’s definitely been, uh, more people entering that space. When we started, uh, the only bags that were really comparable were usually one product made by an outdoor company. So same companies that make those hiking bags would often have one that they kind of targeted towards travelers a little bit.
So, uh, bigger brands like Osprey, uh, they’re a hiking brand, or r e i, uh, big retailer here in the us. So, uh, some of them would have one product for the, for that person, for that market. And basically our original bet was we could take that one product that. They don’t really focus on because they’re mostly doing outdoors.
We could take that one product and do a better job of making it and build a business around that idea, right? It’s just one small, one small product to that big brand. But to us, if we totally focused on it and made that our only thing, we still thought that was big enough to build a company around. And
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: can you take me back to the beginning, you know, when you were, when you got this idea you were motivated by, can you share a little bit about, you know, what were the first thing I, I believe you had like a co-founder also, and this was, you started as a side, side hustle kind of a thing.
Um, can you share a little bit about that, that journey of, you know, what
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: were all the first thing that you did
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: and how did you actually get the,
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: the business off the ground? Yeah, we, we started on the side, so I was working at the time at Google, um, which was always on the list of best places to work, but, uh, I, I wasn’t enjoying it, so I was like, well, if I don’t like working at the best place to work, that’s probably a sign.
I better figure out something else, a different path. Uh, and then my business partner, Jeremy, he was in film school at the time, so he wanted to figure out something. Um, our, our initial idea was to create it as like a passive income kind of business. So, uh, for Jeremy, he wanted to pursue filmmaking. So he knew, obviously that’s a difficult industry and he would need some other way to have, uh, more consistent money coming in, uh, as he tried to, to work on that career.
So we both had different reasons for wanting to start something up. Um, and yeah, we started with the, the stuff we knew how to do. The very first thing I did, I bought a domain name That doesn’t get you very far though. So, uh, the first important stuff we started doing was we found a designer on, uh, we used Upwork at the time.
Uh, Uh, or actually, sorry, Elance. Now it’s, Upwork is kind of the more common one. Mm-hmm. . But we used one of those freelancing sites, found a designer, uh, and then started working with him to communicate, all right, we want a bag that has these features that does, uh, these things. Um, who it’s for all that sort of stuff.
So that part of the process actually worked, felt pretty fast, like it seemed to work well. The really hard part after that was finding someone to make the bags. So that’s where we kind of really quickly got in, uh, over your head and don’t really, you learn when you really don’t know what you’re doing. So, um, yeah, we, we bounced around a lot at that stage.
So, uh, at the time everyone told us we should make it in China, so started trying to work with, uh, manufacturers there. But obviously there’s a, a time gap. There’s a language gap. We had never made anything before, so, um, you know, Very hard to vet factories, hard to know, uh, how to work with them, all that sort of stuff.
So, uh, went through a lot of, uh, trials and tribulations there. Spent months trying to get our first sample. They sent a picture of the first sample before they sent, uh, us the bag. And it was, it was about twice the size of the person who was wearing it in the picture. So we spent months trying to get a sample, and then the first one is just a disaster.
Mm-hmm. . But, uh, I think everyone who, uh, usually doesn’t have a background in making stuff and gets into it has all of those, uh, same kind of horror stories. Like you just have to learn through trial and error. You try some stuff, it doesn’t work. So you try something else and keep going until, uh, til it starts to work.
if you are
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: starting today, like this whole aspect of finding the manufacturer and you know, is, is the, is now the, the biggest bigger challenge. That you have to, you know, because it’s a new idea, you have to sell the idea to the manufacturer or the, you know, the, the, the, the factory so that it’s a little bit of a risk for them also.
Are they investing in your idea or is it, is it still the challenges to find the right factory or the manufacturer? Which one, you know, what have changed in the last 12, 13
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: years? I think the challenge is selling them on, uh, you and potentially the viability of that business. So, um, you know, they’re indifferent if the, they think the product’s gonna be a hit or they think it seems stupid, you know, they, that’s not their, uh, area of expertise.
So what, uh, what they care about, what they want is a good customer, right? So, uh, one that you can actually. Pay for this order that you’re gonna place. And, um, I’m sure they also think about whether you are gonna be a good, uh, customer with them. Like, are you gonna ask for a bunch of changes? Are you gonna be a pain to work with?
Um, you know, are you gonna accept the product as is? How are you gonna be to work with, um, I’m sure plenty of, uh, suppliers have worked with people who are, you know, on the phone yelling at them every day. Maybe that’s maybe justified, maybe not. Um, don’t pay on time, pay late, all those sort of things, so, mm-hmm.
you gotta think about, obviously you care about what you want and getting your product made, but if you’re gonna have a good relationship, you gotta think about what they want, right? So they want to know that you’re gonna pay in full, you’re gonna pay on time, and that, uh, you’re gonna place more orders, right?
So like, yeah, they’re, they’re happy to get a new customer in an order, but if you just place one order and go out of business, can’t sell them, whatever, then you know, They’re, they’re not gonna make that much off you, right? They want someone who’s placing an order every month, their quarter, whatever, and, you know, sticking around, adding more products, all of that stuff, right?
They want a good, good customer, like any service-based business. So, um, obviously you can’t promise that all upfront, but, um, you do have to have to sell them a little bit on taking a chance with you. That was something we had a, a tough time with. Um, and then I would also try to pay them on time and, uh, you know, maybe accept terms that are a little more friendly to them, payment terms that are a little more friendly to them initially, to, to build up a little trust with them.
Um, you know, that might mean paying earlier or paying, uh, bigger percentage of the order earlier. Um, and yeah, that’s not good for you, as good for you as a business, but if you can prove to them that you’re gonna pay, pay on time, be a good customer, um, making that kind of investment can maybe pay off down the line.
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: But I, I believe you ended up actually not, you initially, you not getting your product manufactured China, I believe
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: you, you moved to U us. Uh, are you still,
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: uh, is your product still manufactured in the US or, um, have you
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: gone back now? We’ve, uh, at this point we’ve been all over the world. So, uh, we started sampling in China.
We got that picture of the giant backpack and we were like, oh no, we’re never gonna be able to make this work. This is too hard trying to do us to China. Um, you know, we freaked out about it. Uh, we actually found a supplier, uh, like you mentioned in the us and they were also hard to work with just for different reasons.
So, doesn’t solve all your problems making it locally, but we did find someone eventually made a hundred backpacks with them, uh, in Long Beach in Southern California. So we got that done. But, uh, at those prices, we weren’t, weren’t gonna make much money on the bag, but we figured, all right, let’s. Let’s get it produced before we run outta money.
Um, let’s make something and sell it, right? Trying to be the minimum viable product kind of approach. And we said, right, we’ll, we’ll get it out there. We’ll figure out do people want this? We’ll learn something. And then, uh, we’ll figure out better pricing and, and manufacturing down the line. So we put those bags out, um, because we, uh, worked, we got to the point where we were either gonna run out of money, uh, and not order anything, or we just kind of had to order it where it was.
There were more things we wanted to change, but uh, we had to just put it out there. So the first version of the bag was very ugly. It had a giant logo. Lot of problems. But, um, Uh, so we didn’t have a very high conversion rate, but the people who did buy, uh, really liked what we were trying to do. You know, maybe they didn’t think it looked great, but it worked well, solved the problem they needed to solve.
Uh, traveled well, all that. So we knew we were onto something. So, uh, we redesigned the bag, uh, and we later started manufacturing in China. Um, manufactured there for years with a couple different partners. Uh, at 20, I think 2017. Uh, the tariffs increase, uh, were increased on goods imported from China to the us so, mm-hmm.
uh, we had already been exploring Vietnam before that, but, uh, we started, uh, working with some partners in Vietnam starting then. Um, and now that’s where, where we’re doing most of the manufacturing and Vietnam’s kind of the other, uh, Vietnam and China is sort of the two big, uh, bag manufacturers. A lot of the outdoor brands have been in Vietnam for a while, so, uh, started manufacturing there a few years ago and, uh, yeah, that’s where we’re at now, so bounced around us to China to now Vietnam.
Cool.
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Um, you know, this whole idea of, um, validating the idea and, you know, the minimum viable product in the, in the beginning, like, because I’m assuming you were bootstrapping, like, you know, you probably put some of your own money. Was there in your own mind, or, you know, when you, when you had the discussion with your co-founder, like was there a criteria that where you said, You know, we’re putting X amount of money together and this is our budget.
If, if, you know, if we try to sell this idea, it doesn’t work. You know, that’s it. Like what, did you have a criteria to say, yes, you know, this is not working. We have already spent this much amount of money
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: and,
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: you know, if we are not able to sell it, then we’re going to,
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: uh, end this
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: idea. Or like, did you have any, any of that kind of a discussion when
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: you were building your minimum viable product?
I, I needed to talk to you back then. Apparently. No, we, uh, we did not do that. We, uh, we should have, um, the budget came because until we placed the order, everything we were doing was, we’re doing it pretty cheaply, you know, try to get a website up. Um, so it was like a little money here, a little there.
Nothing felt like, uh, you know, we’re putting so much in that, you know, everything’s on the line, uh, until we got to that order. So, uh, the only, we had bootstrapped everything up to that point. Uh, but we got some money from, uh, this group called the Jewish Free Loan Association. Uh, so they do, uh, no interest loans and kind of like help the, I guess, help the Jewish community out.
So my partner’s Jewish, so we could qualify for that. Uh, so we got, uh, some money from them, and that was going to be all right, we got this money from them. We’ll use that to place the order. Um, and then, The, the product development kind of dragged out so that money started, started shrinking as we’re spending on other stuff.
So that was kind of the driving factor that made us say, all right, we’re, we can’t spend all that money we got from them and then have to pay it back and have no way to pay it back, you know, no income to pay it back with. So, mm-hmm. , uh, that, that kind of pushed us over, um, or pushed us to place that order right then.
Um, and then once we were selling, we also probably should have had some, uh, some rules in place to guide us, but, um, you know, like, probably like a lot of other entrepreneurs like your heart’s in it, so you’re like, it’s gonna work. We’ll figure it out, we’ll make it work. Even though we were selling one or two bags a month at that point.
But, uh, like I said, the feedback was good enough that we thought, okay. You know, we were attached to the idea, so we were talking ourselves into it, of course. Um, but we were getting good feedback. We knew what was wrong in terms of the, the look and design of the bag. So we thought, okay, if we, people like what we made, we know what needs fixed.
So if we just fix that, then, you know, then we can have a real business that sells more every month. So, um, it probably would’ve been the right thing to do, to have some rules, but, uh, to prevent the, um, you know, you always can make a case and talk yourself into it when you want something to work, so, mm-hmm.
that would’ve been good to do, but it might’ve stopped us early on because there were a lot of signals that were telling us to stop, but we just ignored the red lights and kept going.
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Well, well, the reason I’m asking that question is like, you know, with the benefit of hindsight, um, any entrepreneur who’s, let’s say, starting out now, uh, what would your advice be?
You know, of course, Starting a bag business, I would say it’s still a
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: rather
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: straightforward kind of a product. Uh, of course you still have to get everything right, you know, design and everything. But still, you know, it,
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: it’s, it doesn’t
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: it, it’s not like a technology based thing. Looking back, like if you were advising an entrepreneur or someone who’s just starting out, have similar kinda a product based
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: idea,
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: um, would you, based on your experience, like say, you know, although we did this in a, in, in this sequence and in this manner, but now looking back, I would advise you to do something
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: differently.
Um,
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: or, or would you say that, you know, if somebody has an idea and they’re
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: passionate enough, you know, just, just
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: take enough actions and you know, even though you’re going to
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: make mistakes, you know it’s gonna work. Yeah, it’s, uh, it’s really hard for that early stage to say, like, you know, people always ask what, what you would do differently or advise to someone, you know, and, um, yeah, I would like to not have made those mistakes, but if someone told me the right answer and I skipped those, I would’ve just made some different ones or made the same one later on.
So it is, you know, it’s part of the learning process. You can’t, um, uh, strategize everything upfront and then execute it all perfectly. You know, you’re, you’re gonna make mistakes and, and run into these problems. So, um, the learning is a necessary part of it. And I, I don’t know as much as I would wanna tell someone to do what, um, you know, you mentioned before of having the parameters of if this happens, then, you know, we continue, if this happens, then we stop.
Um, there is some value in the, you know, an entrepreneur just being a little naive and, uh, Believing more than, uh, more than there’s evidence to support their beliefs. Um, that has a lot of value when you’re starting out. Um, of course, you know, some people take it too far, but, uh, I would maybe earn the direction of following that at first and, you know, kind of following that passion and, uh, being okay to be a little driven by your heart, over your head or something for a while.
Um, probably need some rules around, you know, you don’t wanna do that for 10 years and hope something’s gonna change. But if you have, uh, uh, you know, if you do that for some period of time, a year or something and, and do see like what needs change to make this work versus, um, you know, just hoping that something changes.
If you, you do see a, a path forward and know what you have to change, then, uh, I would say keep at it. But, um, you know, if the evidence mounts too much that you should stop, maybe eventually you should listen to the evidence.
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: What was the turning point for your business? So it seems like, you know, from what you’ve shared, the, the sales at the beginning were, you know, um, you know, not,
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: not,
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: uh, I would say sporadic, I guess.
Um, at what point did you, uh, and your co-founder say, yes, now we have made enough changes to the product and it’s, it’s, you know, now it’s really sticking with the, uh, the people who are buy, buying it, and, you know, now the idea is really working. Was there like any, any that kind of a turning point,
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: uh, in your business?
Yeah, that was the one time it was, uh, a really clear line of what changed. Mostly the business has been sort of gradual growth over time and then occasionally with, say a new product launch or something that we change, we take. Step up to that next level and then slowly grow from there. But, uh, the biggest one was, uh, I mentioned earlier that the first version of the bag was pretty ugly and sold, uh, sporadically, as you said.
Uh, it’s a nice way to say it. Um, so we redesigned the bag, uh, to fix smaller logo, fix some stuff that, uh, we thought would make it work better. And we launched that in, uh, 2013. That was the second version, V2 of the bag in 2013. And, uh, right away we started selling. Uh, we had a little bit of a wait list. We did some pre-sales.
Those were looking good. Uh, at once. It was available on the website. We had more consistent sales, not, you know, one a month, but, uh, frequent sales and made, uh, maybe five figures or so, uh, towards the end of that year and early into the next year. So that was enough for us to see, okay, there, there’s some world where we make money every day from this visit, like a real amount of money every day.
Hmm. So that’s. That, that is the baseline, and then you can work from there to, to build that number up, obviously. But, uh, that re deciding the bag and, and that relaunch in 2013 was the sign that we went from, like, first we had an idea, then we made a product. But that’s when we thought, okay, this is the sign that this can actually be a business.
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: No, it, I think, I guess it, it may also depend on when, you know, when an entrepreneur starts a business and they have a certain goal, like as you said, you know, your goal and your co-founder’s goal was maybe to create a passive income so that, you know, your co-founder can pursue their acting career or, you know, you can have some additional
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: income coming in.
Um,
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: at this point in your, um, business, like, have you achieved that goal? Was, is that, was that, is that still the goal or has it, you know, transitioned into like a full-time business, full-time career for you? Uh, and you know, is your, so I, I guess, you know, When someone starts a business with a certain goal, I guess, you know, the kind of time and effort and resources they’re putting in is, you know, it’s, it’s based on that goal.
How, how has that, uh, is that, is that, is that it still your goal to create passive income out it or, you know, uh, or has it become kind like a full
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: business for you? Yeah, the, the ladder every, uh, like a lot of people, I think every time we hit one goal, we just kind of move up to the next goal. You know, you just kind of set your ambitions a little higher.
So, uh, that’s been the cycle for us. Um, uh, when we started out, we, we thought we would, uh, run ads and that would be sort of the traffic to the site. And then, um, you know, once in a while we’d place an order and it would be mostly passive, otherwise, uh, I had worked at Google previously, so I thought, okay, I know how to do the ads.
This will be great. But like I mentioned, that first version of the bag was very ugly, didn’t convert very well, which meant those ads weren’t profitable. So, um, we had to figure out another avenue and ended up, uh, more doing content marketing rather than advertising. So, um, partially because of how the business ended up working in terms of getting traffic in and making sales, uh, and partially just kind of our own ambitions.
Once, once we’re making some progress, it’s, we kind of wanted to like, do more, let’s do some new products, let’s eventually grow the team, add some employees. Um, and yeah, we’ve just, uh, kind of at each level that we reach, um, we’re still having fun and enjoying it, so we just kind of wanna do more, like, solve more problems, make more products, like, um, you know, uh, a lot of the businesses is very fun.
So, um, yeah, we still like it and kind of keep, uh, keep raising that level of ambition rather than, you know, settling or selling it or whatever.
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: And is your target market still the, the, the
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: travel or the traveler, uh, demographic or has it changed? Uh, no, still primarily travel. Um, I would say when we start, we had, we had a vision that was probably very similar to us.
So, uh, you know, 2020 something or college student kind of age, staying in hostels, uh, backpacking, really roughing it. Um, we’ve definitely broadened out from there. So we have a wider age range. We have, you know, uh, we do have students who travel with the bags, but all the way up to, you know, people who are retired and, um, Say they didn’t know if they could carry the backpack for, for traveling, cuz they’re older, but uh, you know, they love it and it’s comfortable for them.
So have a wider range that way. Uh, in terms of age and then also just how people travel. So yeah, we still have those backpackers and stuff, but now, you know, we’ve got the digital nomads, we’ve got people who don’t travel much internationally, but do a lot of, uh, weekend trips or our salespeople so they have to travel for work.
So, um, that part of it is wind out, but we still stay, uh, travel specific. Um, especially because, like I said, when we started, a lot of brands were outdoor brands making one travel bag. Uh, and then there’s a lot of companies that are, uh, it’s just, just bag brands. So they make a work bag, a gym, travel. So they do a little bit of everything, but, uh, focusing on one category for us, lets.
Really focus there, let’s us do the content marketing, uh, which is important to the business, and, um, kind of be, be part of that, uh, that niche too.
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: How did, uh, covid affect your business? Was that like a big
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: dip in your
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: business? Uh, because of course nobody was traveling, so
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: Yeah, it’s, uh, it was not good . Um, yeah.
Uh, so we, uh, I like to say now that we started in a, a recession 2009 and we’ve made it through a pandemic. So, uh, , I don’t know what’s next, but hopefully, uh, hopefully, we’ll, we’ll make it through that too. Um, yeah, it was pretty tough for us, especially, uh, being in travel, obviously travel, uh, you know, pretty much dried up.
Uh, and we’re also really focused on international. Usually people buy new luggage when they’re taking a big trip. International, uh, you know, backpacking Europe or a long honeymoon, whatever. So, uh, the main reason people bought our bags kind of went away and even, uh, even the other uses. So we have a smaller bag that you could carry to work or school or whatever.
Those also like were less, uh, relevant. So, um, yeah, it was not, uh, not a good time. We had to lay off a lot of our team, uh, sales really fell off. Um, we tried all kinds of different stuff to, to keep the business going and, um, work our way through it. And, uh, once we kind of got some things, uh, stabilized, cut some costs, um, figured out what we wanted to do, then, you know, for the last couple years we’ve really been building with an eye.
Post pandemic. So rather than just kind of muddling through the pandemic, we started thinking about, all right, what’s the next version of the business after the pandemic? Like, what, what should this look like? We’ve got 12 years of experience so we can use that. And then tried to use it as, uh, as an opportunity.
So even though obviously it was terrible for the business and uh, for lots of other reasons, but, um, tried to use that as a reset that we could, uh, build the company that, you know, we weren’t building from scratch, but kind of from scratch a little bit. So, uh, thinking about what would be the next version of the business and starting to build that ahead of time
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: and, and that, that next version of the business.
Like when you think about it, is it like getting into adjacent categories? Is it more like creating other
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: travel focused products? Or, or, or, you
know,
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: what does that mean for you? Like, how do you. I guess, you know, being in one category and having like a
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: limited number of products, kind of like, uh, you only
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: have, I guess the risk, uh, is much bigger, uh, in terms
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: of, you know, you know,
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: if, if the travel industry is affected than your business, basically the factor.
So how do,
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: how do you think about it? Yeah, there’s, uh, I mean, there’s gonna be some risk, uh, involved, right? There have been other times that, uh, hurt the travel industry or even just, you know, when the price of gas is higher than people travel less because, uh, you know, air travel gets more expensive. So there are some inherent risks that.
You know, you’re gonna have to live with, in any, any industry. Hopefully it won’t, uh, you know, drop whatever, uh, air travel dropped 80% or something, um, as drastically in the future. So yeah, basically what we did, uh, on the product side was we actually used to have a lot more products. We had maybe 20 SKUs.
Uh, so during the pandemic we, we moved some of those to Amazon. Uh, we liquidated some with some third parties that kind of give you not a good return on them, but we could turn some into cash. Um, so we went from having 20 something SKUs, shrunk it down, uh, with the idea of being one, being a little leaner and simpler so we could manage the business during the pandemic and then to grow it, but grow it differently afterwards.
So, um, the big change there is that we used to have, uh, three collections at three different price points. So we had like our premium one, our budget one, and our. Goldilocks in the middle one. Mm-hmm. Uh, but what we’re gonna, but the problem that we had, uh, is we’re kind of like the, uh, the mattress companies that are big in D two C where we’re good at making that first sale, um mm-hmm.
and that’s a value valuable sale. Few hundred bucks. We’re not as good at making that second, at getting that second and third purchase from someone because we make a good bag. Then, you know, they don’t need one next week. Then if they’re good for five years or maybe longer, so, That’s been the challenge.
So we’re gonna try to grow and, uh, grow products with that in mind. So we’ll be doing more, uh, accessories that you could buy to use with the bag more, uh, smaller bags that you can use as a person item or for work school, you know, other purposes we’ll still, you know, focus on travel, but, uh, just by making smaller bags, they’re kind of more versatile.
You can use them for more things. Uh, versus our, our big bags are pretty big. They’re, you know, the size of a carryon suitcase. So, um, get into some categories where we’re making smaller bags and accessories. So, uh, that’s the plan and we’ll start to roll out. Uh, we’ve got some new stuff coming the beginning of 2023, and, uh, we’ll be launching a lot of products next year.
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: It’s, it’s one of the challenges of creating a, you know, a, a product based business or like a single product based business that. You know, you have, you know, you started out with like this one product, which you can call like a hero product, right? You know, where, which was your main product at the beginning.
And you put a lot of, you know, heart and mind and, you know, effort into it, to, to create like the, the best design,
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: the
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: most, uh, customer validated product. And in a way that kind of becomes your, you know, from a operator principle, you know, 80% of your sale are coming from that product, but then, you know, you’re adding new skews and which are not, which, which may be selling, but you know, they’re not the best sellers.
Um, how do you think about, you know, when you’re adding a new product, is it like always, like when you’re adding something new, is it always like you have to be very focused on building that new product? With the same kind of, you know, focus
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: and effort and, uh,
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: you know, love to, to make sure that, you know, customers have the same kind of demand for that, rather than just having like an adding another skew so that, you know, you have like additional revenue generating.
Like how do you see, see this
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: now? Yeah, we, uh, we try and do a bit of both, uh, depending on the product. So, um, I think when we started out I definitely had that mentality of everything had to be like any new product had to be super unique and uh, you know, as, uh, as big of a deal as the first, uh, travel backpack we made and had to be that innovative and, you know, you’re kind of always trying to, to reinvent.
Um, and there are some businesses that are basically that, but. That’s not really how most successful businesses operate. They may, they have, you have to do some innovation and some, um, you know, creating a new category or just doing new features or whatever with some products. But, um, those should always hopefully be your winners.
But you can also, um, uh, you know, make money off of simpler things that are, you know, you’re not copying what’s out there, but you know, you have to understand the market, see what people are buying and see, maybe you can bring some of your perspective to that product, even if it’s only a little bit unique or a little bit innovative.
Um, and the other side of that is you want to kind of build up your brand with folks so that if you do release something that’s. You know, could be seen as less unique. They still wanna buy it from you because they trust you for, uh, quality or they like the business and they already have one bag from you.
So when they go shopping for this other category, of course they want it from you because they already trust you. So. Mm-hmm. , we’ve tried to have a little bit more balance that way and not been, uh, as, I dunno, strict or idealistic or something maybe. Um, and just accept that, you know, if there’s some categories that already exist, people really like them, we can put our spin on it and make something a little bit unique.
But, um, we don’t have to reinvent the wheel with every product. So, um, you know, I think some people are really good at that and accept like, Hey, yeah, I’ll make something. I don’t care if there’s 20 other brands selling the exact same thing. Mm-hmm. . Um, and then I think some entrepreneurs have more of my perspective, which is like a, I don’t know, being a designer or product person where you’re like, no, we have to change the world with every product , but sometimes you can just make some packing cubes and.
You know, it’s just a cube of material, but people like them to organize their stuff, so, you know, make it, let people want it, they buy it, so, you know, we can be the one to sell it to them too. Cool.
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Uh, in terms of your sales channels, um, are you, uh, really just selling through your website, do you, have you ever considered like, going through the retailer route or is that like too complicated or too risky
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: to, to pursue?
Uh, so it’s mostly through our store and then we do sell bit on Amazon, and then we’ve tried a couple other little things, but, uh, they weren’t, weren’t too major. Um, when we started out, we thought we would try to be in stores. I think partially because that’s, uh, part of the strategy laid out in four hour work week.
Uh, I think he tried to get his, he was making supplements and I think he tried to get in GNC or one, like one store, you know, that he could have a relationship with. But um, yeah, that was one of our original ideas. We, you know, called around and. Of course they ignore you because you don’t even have a product yet.
You don’t know what you’re doing and, uh, you know, aren’t very good at selling the, selling the buyers. So, uh, we didn’t make any progress there. So we started out on the site and we’ve just kind of kept that, uh, rolling. Um, there are some downsides, especially selling something that’s, you know, a big purchase, uh, in terms of consideration and price.
Plus it needs to fit well, so people want to try it on. So, uh, we’ve done what we can to mitigate that. So allowing people to try it on at home, return it, uh, you know, have 30 days to return and try to make that process easy. Um, but yeah, there are, there certainly are some trade-offs to not, uh, not being in stores, but something we’ll, we’ll probably revisit in the future.
How
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: has your marketing changed or evolved over time? I know you said you, you moved, uh, from Google ads to quantum marketing. Is that still your primary. Uh, marketing channel. Have you, are you on social media? Are you trying like, some of these channels like TikTok and Instagram to, to drive
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: traffic? Yeah, we’ve always been driven by content and seo.
Um, and the big thing there, we do a little bit of social media, but really, uh, ultimately what’s really worked well for us is, uh, kind of sharing our knowledge and helping the customer. So, um, you know, some of these channels, there are of course informative, whatever TikTok accounts, but a lot of it is more entertainment, uh, driven and we’ve always done better by.
Helping people travel better, whether that’s telling them, uh, you know, suggesting ways to pack, places to go, uh, anything like that. How to fit your bag and carry it well, make sure it’s comfortable. Uh, we’ve always done better at education than it’s entertainment, let’s say, uh, if those are two categories.
So, um, yeah, we’ve always, uh, for that reason we’ve tended to focus on, uh, content and we also like channels that we can own. I think because, because we started out in content where we can own the site, the blog, whatever. So, um, we’ve tended to place more, more faith in those than in. Things we don’t own, like Facebook and, and all that.
So, um, especially when you see people, you know, worried about, uh, cost of acquiring customers going up on Facebook or issues around iOS, uh, 15 or 14 whenever they made the update there. So, uh, I see some of this stuff that like, causes a lot of problems in the ad world and uh, kind of makes me appreciate, uh, what we’ve built on the, the content and SEO side.
Definitely.
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Um, a little bit on, um, your fulfillment and shipping. Are you shipping mostly in the US or are you like a global, um, strategy and, uh, pretty sure a little bit about your fulfillment strategy.
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: Yeah, we’re, uh, primarily US right now. We have a distributor, we’ve worked with a bit in Europe, um, but primarily us.
We used to ship internationally, uh, more, but uh, there are some. Let’s call complications around that. And what we’re finding then is, uh, so we work with a a three pl, which is like a warehouse that does your shipping and stor storage. So, um, they send stuff out and depending on your partner there, uh, for the warehouse and for carriers, um, it can be a little difficult, the international shipping.
And what we found was we were shipping a lot, especially to Europe tended to be a big, big market for us. And, uh, people often didn’t know that they would have to pay the import duties, so that would really add to the cost. Uh, obviously shipping was slow. If we were shipping from the us, uh, they had to pay for shipping because it’s, uh, expensive for a big bag and long distance.
So, um, what ended up happening was people would get the bag, they would end up paying a bunch more in shipping and all this stuff. Uh, so they weren’t happy about that. Um, and. , it was kind of creating a situation where they were having a bad experience, even if they got the bag, like they were having a bad experience.
So, uh, that meant they were unhappy. They were a bigger percentage of, uh, customer service time than they were of revenue because they would have problems receiving the bag or they’d be mad about it. Um, and rightly so. So we decided to cut back on that and focus just on the us. Um, and then we’ll revisit that again.
Uh, I think we have a better plan now, but revisit that when people can see all the costs upfront, pay them up upfront, um, and have kind of a faster and easier time shipping and receiving the bags. What does your team look like right now? Uh, so, uh, in addition to, uh, shrinking down our SKUs, we also had to shrink down, uh, our team and lay some folks off.
So, uh, today we are four people, uh, myself, my co-founder, uh, and then some people in, uh, marketing and support.
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: So did your co-founder ever end up pursuing the acting career or ?
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: Uh, so it was, uh, screenwriting and directing. So he, uh, he’s written, uh, he has now written a bunch of screenplays by now and, uh, even made one movie.
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Oh, wow. So, so it did
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: work out . Yeah. He, uh, got to do, uh, a bit of both worlds, uh, still working with, uh, an in fora, um, and then also doing the screenwriting. Oh, cool.
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Um, in every entrepreneur’s journey, there’s always, uh, mistakes made, lessons learned, uh, in your journey, looking back, you know, what, like what are one or two
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: big mistakes that you think or, or lessons learned,
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: uh, that you think you can share with other
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: entrepreneurs who are, you know, in a similar uh, journey?
Yeah. We’ve, uh, I feel like we’ve made every mistake, uh, there is, but I’m sure I’ll find some more that I can make. Um, so yeah, that, that’s how we’ve always, uh, learned. I think the, um, you know, we talked before about some of the mistakes, uh, in getting started trying to make that first bag. Um, but then even once we, uh, did have a product that was getting some momentum, uh, the next year after that, we had a product that we went from not being able to sell it to, uh, selling well and because we were still growing, so we couldn’t order too many, uh, bags at a time.
So we’d do a small order. Uh, what would happen was we’d get the order in, we would announce it to people, and it would sell out that same day. Hmm. So then once we had a bag that was working, we spent a year where, , we’d get a, uh, an order in sell out immediately and then be sold out for like three months until we got the next order in.
So, okay, we switched, we flipped problems. Um, so, uh, I think the lesson out of that is like when, when it happens, when you find that that fit and start getting some momentum, it, it can be sudden. So, um, you have to be ready for it, but you also can’t, uh, over-engineer, over plan. Like it would’ve been a mistake for us to order, you know, 10,000 bags instead of 1000 because we didn’t have the proof yet, right?
Mm-hmm. . But, um, but once it happens, we probably could have been smarter about, uh, maybe finding other sources of money so we could scale up the orders and grow a little quicker. Or maybe we should have raised the price to, you know, offset that demand and manage it a bit better. So, um, I think probably some things we could have learned, but, uh, We’re just so grateful to be selling anything at that point, that that was kind of the focus.
So, um, yeah, I think a good lesson in being on both sides of, you know, failing and then succeeding in some way, um, and being able to adjust quickly and, uh, kind of make the right decisions for whatever the, the current problem is.
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Do you think that, you know, a business like this, the, the, the bottle, like, you know, once you’ve got the product, a product that is working, right, which is selling, is the bottleneck at that point really the marketing, like, is it really about how well you can market your product in the market that really limits your growth?
Do you see it like that or, uh, do you have a different perspective
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: on that? Yeah, I think it’s a, a combination or maybe a balance of that marketing with the, uh, the operational side of the business, and especially, The cash flow and inventory side. So, um, you know, you, uh, obviously if something’s working, people are liking it, you wanna press the gas on the, the marketing side of the business, but you can also fall into that situation I described a minute ago where you’re so successful you can’t keep stock in, or, um, you know, you’ve heard of some people where if they don’t have their margins worked out, then they’re growing, but losing money, like the more they grow, the worse they’re doing.
Um, so there are a lot of challenges around, uh, cash flowing, um, and reinvesting that money into more inventory because, uh, while it looks like you’re making a profit over here, that profit, uh, is really just to buy more inventory, right? Goes back into the business. So, um, As, as you’re growing and, and getting better at marketing.
I think the, that’s, that’s the visible one I think people tend to recognize and know, but you also need to make sure you’re on top of the finance side and, um, the cost of your products. Plus the marketing still leaves enough left over for you to buy more products. So, um, making sure you understand that sort of how cash flows through the business.
Um, and your cost is also important. Otherwise, you can, uh, be doing great on the marketing side, but running into trouble elsewhere.
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Now we’re going move on our rapid fire segment, and in this segment I’m going ask you a few quick questions and you have to few words or one or two sentences. So the first one is one book recommendation for entrepreneurs or business professionals in 2022 and why?
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: Hmm. Looking up my bookshelf, uh, to the side here. Um, I’ll recommend to a, uh, that are less common, try to give a unique answer. So, uh, one is, this is not a t-shirt, uh, it’s by Bobby. Hundreds from the, he has a streetwear brand called The Hundreds, and it’s really about creating a brand out of, uh, uh, out of a culture and community and building the brand out of that, which is cool.
And the other one is called the Box, which is, it’s like this thick, it’s 500 pages, but it’s about the invention of the shipping container and how it changed, um, the economics of, uh, of trade and, and sales. So I think important if you’re, if you’re importing stuff, making it in another country and using shipping containers, you should probably know the history of that.
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: That’s great. Um, an innovative product or idea in the current e-commerce retailer tech landscape that you feel excited about?
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: Hmm. Um, I think the one I’ve been. Using the most and getting more and more excited about is Airtable, um, which is kind of a, I guess it’s a database technically, but it feels mm-hmm.
a little lighter weight and closer to using Google Docs or something. So, um, we’ve been using that more and more, and I think I’m starting to understand what you can do in there, um, and have been really liking that for, uh, a couple parts of the business. Yeah. I is,
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: um, is versatile, more versatile than, than Excel because it’s, yeah, as you said, it’s kinda like a database that, uh, you don’t need to, you don’t need to be able to code manage, um, a business or productivity tool or software that you would recommend or a
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: productivity tool.
I, I think probably the one I use the most often every day is Text Expander, which is, uh, a little app that lets you type a. Little, uh, short code, uh, like a couple letters and we’ll expand into, I use it for URLs or, uh, common replies to emails, things like that. Um, but just based on how, how many times a day I type in one of those, that’s probably gotta be my top one.
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: I’m assuming that’s great for customer service
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: is that, uh, it is, but most of the customer, uh, service tools have something like that built in, so. Okay. Um, yeah, you can usually save answers and some of them now try to, try to guess which saved answer you’ll put in, you know, sort of a machine learning kind of thing.
Mm-hmm. , uh, a
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: startup or business in e-commerce, retail or tech? Tech that you think is currently doing great. Thanks.
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: Um, I’ll give, uh, a shout out to, uh, a company that we’re friendly with called Western Rise. They do a lot of, uh, Kind of performance clothing. So, uh, tends to work well for travel. So, um, we’ve always, uh, been connected, but they just launched a new Kickstarter.
They’ve done a bunch of Kickstarters, but they did a new one, uh, that it’s for a rain shell. So, uh, it’s cool to see a brand leveling up from like t-shirts to pants to now like more technical outerwear. So, uh, as a, as a product nerd, I like seeing brands not just get better at marketing and selling, but also, uh, doing harder and harder products is cool to see
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: a peer entrepreneur or business person whom you look up to or someone who
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: inspires you.
Uh, lately I’ve been listening a lot to the podcast. My first million, I don’t know if you ever listened to that one, but, uh, I really like the two, uh, entrepreneurs on there, Sam Par and, uh, uh, Sean Purey. Um, so they’ve, really inspired me, not necessarily with their businesses, which, uh, you know, are, are great and fine, but just with the conversations on the show always makes me, uh, excited to go out and, like, think of new ideas and, and explore new stuff.
Yeah, I,
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: I come across those clips on TikTok . I, I didn’t know the name. I didn’t know the name of it, but yeah, I, I do, I, I follow them and I, I do come across, uh, the mini clips, uh, from that show. It’s very
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: interesting. Yeah. It’s, uh, it’s an interesting show.
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Um, and final question, best business advice you ever received or you would give to other entrepreneurs?
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: Um, I think, uh, you might guess this from, uh, you know, all, all the problems we ran into starting out and the fact that we didn’t quit, but, uh, I think some of the best devices often to keep going. Like maybe some people take that too far and, you know, keep going when they should have stopped. But I think a lot of times people, you know, something doesn’t take off immediately or, um, You know, we’re, uh, I live near Silicon Valley, right?
So it’s easy for me to see like, oh, this business raised a hundred million and billions in, you know, these kind of numbers. But, um, like that’s, it’s not the the scale of business, uh, I operate in, but, um, you know, that that kind of stuff can be discouraging. You know, it’s easy to see someone doing better than you and think like, oh, this isn’t working, or, I can’t do it, I’m not good enough, whatever, and give up.
But, um, I think a lot of times the the answer is to keep going. Like, you’re gonna run into problems. There’ll be shortcomings to the business you chose, or, you know, uh, things that are challenging about your business or category or whatever. But, um, you know that that’s kind of the nature of the game. And if you keep going and keep showing up and keep putting all your, you’re all into it every day, then you’re gonna make something out.
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Definitely. That’s, uh, great advice. Thank you Fred. Really, really appreciate, uh, your time today. If, um, if someone watching this show wants to purchase your, uh, uh, travel, uh, backpack, what is the best way they can,
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: uh, do that? Yeah, they can just, uh, go to our website. It’s tortuga backpacks.com and that’s T O R T U G A.
It’s the Spanish word for turtle because turtle’s got everything he needs right on his back. . That’s awesome.
Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: That’s a, that’s a great man. Uh, well, Fred, thank you so much again for sharing your story, for sharing some of the, you know, some of the challenges and strategies and tactics that you used to start and grow business.
So yeah, thank you again for joining Trep Talk
Fred Perrotta of Tortuga: and, and sharing your story. Yeah, thanks, uh, it was great talking to you. It was a good conversation. Thank.
Also, get inspired to Create a Profitable Online Business with Justin Fenchel – Making partying more fun by introducing portable party punch
One Reply to “Traveling made easy with the perfect travel backpack – Fred Perrotta of Tortuga”