Fun Cardboard Cat Toys and Playhouses – Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the Box

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Hey there entrepreneurs, my name is Sushant and welcome to Treptalks. This is the show where I interview successful e-commerce entrepreneurs, business executives, and thought leaders and ask them questions about their business story and also dive deep into some of the strategies and tactics that they have used to start and grow their businesses.

And today I’m really excited to welcome Dawn LaFontaine to the show. Dawn is the founder of Cat in the Box. Cat in the Box is a certified women owned company that designs, manufactures, and sells stylish and fun cardboard cat condos and other unique cat products that are 100 percent animal safe. And today I’m going to ask Dawn a few questions about her entrepreneur journey.

And some of the strategies and tactics that she has used to start and grow her business. Now, before I dive into this interview, uh, if you enjoy this kind of content, please make sure to hit the like and subscribe button. And for more content like this, please [00:01:00] visit our website, Treptalks.com. And with that Dawn, welcome.

And thank you so much again for joining me today at Treptalks. Really appreciate it.

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: Oh, Sushant, thank you so much for inviting me on your show. I appreciate it.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: So I have to say, you know, I’m a little bit new to cat related products, and, uh, I was definitely, uh, surprised and interested in this concept of, you know, uh, cat condos and cardboard made condos.

So I looked on into your website and I was definitely fascinated. So, uh, maybe you can tell a little bit about yourself and like what really motivated you to create a business for cats.

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: Okay, well, I’m a lifelong animal lover. We’ve had every kind of pet, um, you can imagine over the course of our, I’m married 33 years, we, and we had two kids, we had everything you can imagine in this household.

And whenever I couldn’t find something that I was looking for, for my own pets, in the big box pet stores, I usually ended up designing it, making it, [00:02:00] sewing it, um, myself. Um, What got me started on the entrepreneurial journey was that I was at a crossroads in my life. I’d been a stay at home mother for, I think it was 27 years or something like that, and trying to figure out what to do with the years that I had left, the working years that I had left.

And a couple things sort of intersected. One was that my husband was laid off from a job that he’d had for 15 years. He had just gotten the CEO’s award and he’s the only non scientist in the company that he worked for in a company of 25, 000 to get this award. So it’s very prestigious. And then they let him go.

And so, and after 15 years, it made me realize that you really. It’s really hard to put your, um, your working life in someone else’s hands because you don’t have any control. Um, the other thing that happened was I, I applied for a couple of jobs that I was overqualified for, didn’t get any of them. And so, um, that made me, you know, I’ve, I’ve long wanted to start my own business and that was really just the [00:03:00] impetus that I needed.

And then the next question is, you know, Well, what kind of business do I want to start? Just coincidentally, I was visiting my mother’s cat sitter with her while all these questions are swirling around in my brain. And we were dropping the cat off. The woman had a really nice living room, beautiful furniture, wallpaper.

And the whole living room was just filled with old Amazon boxes and, you know, being a lifelong animal lover, I already knew that cats love cardboard boxes, but it made me question, why do people keep them in, you know, cardboard boxes, filthy, disgusting cardboard boxes in their living room? Why not something that was, you know, a little fun, a bit of a conversation piece and something also that that’s cat safe.

So that’s, um, you know, that’s what I did.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: You know, I always wonder, because I order quite a few items from Amazon all the time, and I always wonder, yeah, I always wonder, like, what happens to all these cardboard boxes? You know, obviously they go to recycling at the end of the day, but, I mean, it’s, it’s a [00:04:00] huge volume of boxes, and it’s, it’s, it’s definitely very interesting to see that you’re making something, uh, unique, uh, out of it that’s useful also.

Right,

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: and these are actually the ones, here, here’s an example of one of them, um, This one, um, they’re, they’re, this one’s a hundred percent recycled cardboard. So, so your Amazon boxes, uh, do end up, um, making my boxes.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: And, you know, interestingly enough, I mean, the other thing that you said is like getting into the entrepreneurial journey, like You know, these days, especially now, and I think it will become more and more true in the future.

It’s like, I don’t think there’s any job security anymore. Like we would be right.

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: Exactly. Absolutely.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: And so I think it’s imperative for everybody to be starting to think about, you know, what is their backup plan? Because once AI becomes more and more mainstream, I think people are going to Have to figure out what, you know, what needs to be done.

And [00:05:00] it’s interesting, was it difficult for you? Like you said, I believe 27 years as a stay at home mom to be able to start thinking in terms of business. And I mean, it could be without having any business background, like, were you, were you kind of business minded?

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: Well, I actually, I’m a charter financial analyst actually.

So before I had kids, that’s what I did. So I have a little bit of understanding of. You know, a little finance background, but no real business experience. And frankly, I actually consider that to be a positive because had I known what I didn’t know, I might not have ever done this because it’s just been so much.

There’s been so much more to it than I realized. And I didn’t know how to do anything. I didn’t know how to. Create a website. I did not know how, um, I didn’t know how social media worked. I remember asking my then teenage daughter, what is this Instagram thing? And you know, why are people interested in other people’s photographs?

And I have 10, 000 followers on Instagram now, so I figured it out, but, [00:06:00] um, I didn’t know how to do anything. I didn’t know, I didn’t know, didn’t understand marketing. I didn’t understand. I didn’t even know what CEOs, SEO stands for. I didn’t know how to print. posted. I didn’t know how to, I didn’t know how to do anything.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: So

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: I had to learn.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Yeah. Yeah. I mean that, and that’s an interesting thing, right? Like every entrepreneur, like, I don’t think anybody knows everything. And so, you know, that’s part of being an entrepreneur is to be able to figure those things out as you go. And I think there’s a bit of fun and learning those things out as well.

You know, it’s, I find joyful to be able to learn something new every day.

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: Every single day, I have not gone a single day without learning something new. So that is absolutely true. This it’s interesting every single day. There’s not one day that I dread doing this. Not one day.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: For sure. So let’s talk a little bit about your products.

Um, of course it’s cardboard and you’re kind of repurposing, uh, you know, uh, old cardboard boxes. Are these products all [00:07:00] handmade? How are you making these items?

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: No, actually, they’re all made in, um, in a factory in the US. Uh, they actually require very expensive tooling to make something. I wasn’t aware of when I first, you know, started thinking about this.

Um, they require engineers to design. They’re very, I have got, um, A gingerbread house. I probably should have been brought up here, but, um, it’s a very complicated design to have everything snapped together, fit together and be secure. So it requires engineering. It requires expensive tooling, and it’s built on millions of dollars of, um, you know, at a factory.

So, um, That, and that’s one of the products. So the other products that I make right now, and I’m working on, I have a whole long line, but the things, um, I make a lot of toys, wool toys, two for cats. Um, this is another one. So it’s a little octopus. These are all actually handmade, not by me. Um, they’re made in, um, at a non, [00:08:00] a fair trade nonprofit craft guild in Nepal.

They’re made to my specifications. I’ve designed them and I have felt artisans who make them for me. So my products really do run the gamut.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: And when you started, first started out, like, can you talk through a little bit about the prototyping process? How did you find these people who can make these items?

And, um, like, is this an item that ‘s a completely new idea? I mean, these cardboard, uh, houses or condos, as you call it, or is it like you’re taking an existing idea and you kind of,

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: when I, when I first started, no, uh, I couldn’t find anything like this on the market. Yeah. Although now, um, they abound. Uh, in fact, I actually see some of my design elements in some of the products that are on the market.

I cats really like, uh, tiny little holes. I have these palladium windows, almost like a cathedral window, in one of my products. And I’ve now seen that exact window design in other, [00:09:00] other products. So they’ve been copied because cats really do enjoy that. Um, so no, when I first started, there was nothing like it on the market and they were.

They were really difficult to prototype. I couldn’t even explain what it is I was trying to achieve. And the first ones were, um, and that the, the, um, the milk carton is actually one of the first ones that I made. It’s a, it’s a simpler design and it’s not as elegant as some of my later products, which, um, I’m just super proud of.

So, um, those take, I’ve worked very, very closely with, they’re, they’re called packaging engineers, box engineers. They, you know, I’m trying to achieve, you know, I try to tell them what the end product has to look like and they’re, and they’re able to, um, engineer, um, the, the assembly for me.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: And when you first started, like, how did you, of course, it’s a very interesting idea, unique idea, and part of what you said is maybe you, you were lucky that you did not have the business experience.

So you kind of went blindly into it. Otherwise, you know, people get into a lot of research and [00:10:00] analysis, paralysis and everything else. But did you. Because this is a business, like, did you think about, or did you try to sell some sort of a prototype first before you said, okay, and I don’t even know how much investment went into building these products, but did you do some, any sort of due diligence up front to say that, you know, I’m making this product, is it actually, somebody is going to buy it?

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: Well, that, that would be nice. Now I know how to do that at the time. No. And to be honest, the only way to make these, the only way is to invest in the tooling, which was thousands of dollars of investment. So maybe not the smartest product to have started with, but that’s, that’s what I did. Um, luckily I have a husband who was really on board and very supportive and, um, and you know, I haven’t ended up, uh, it hasn’t ended up being the wrong decision.

So, but, uh, Yeah, I mean, in the future, uh, other products, in fact, I’m working on developing another product now that I’m, I’m having prototypes made and I’m actually gonna, I have a focus group of, of [00:11:00] kitty guardians that will test the products for me first and give me feedback before I actually invest in the tooling for that product, um, to be made.

So I am a little smarter about it now, and I just got lucky with the first ones. Um, Yeah, that’s your answer.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: But I think there’s a bit of a, um, something has to be said about, you know, if you know about something a lot, then you have a certain intuition that yes, this is, you know, this is something that I want and I know other people would want it if I build it.

Uh, so if you’re very knowledgeable about cats and living with cats and how they behave, maybe you kind of had that intuition. So I would say it was then not completely blind. But yeah, but, but, once you built these items or, you know, first batch, was there like a minimum order quantity, uh, and how did you kind of, did you start selling on your website or did you kind of sell person to person, uh, first?

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: Right. So, you know, this is, you know, my naivete [00:12:00] showing through completely. Yeah, I, I, I did order, um, a relatively small amount, like a thousand to start with. And, uh, Um, I had a misunderstanding how things were, I thought, you know, you, you design something really cool. People will just come find you and buy it.

You know, if they build, if you build it, they will come like that, like the movie. No, no, that is not how that works. That being said, initially I got really, really lucky. I reached out to, you know, product hunter, right? Yes. Yes. So I found the person, uh, one of the people, one of the hunters who, um, has done some pet products in the past.

And I reached out to her and so within, you know, receiving these items within five days, it was on product hunter. And that, that, that did help, um, you know, get some exposure initially. And, and to be honest, everything I’ve done since has mostly involved free publicity like that. Um, Because I do have a very limited marketing budget, but no people did [00:13:00] not come It’s it’s really It’s a lot of work to get people to buy from you

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: But is your main channel your website or are you selling on like amazon or any any of these marketplaces?

I am

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: selling on amazon not all of my products. Hopefully, um, you know, some of the people who find me on amazon ultimately You know find me on my website. Um, so my amazon’s probably my primary revenue source You And my secondary revenue source is wholesale business.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: And, uh, I mean, to me, it’s, it almost seems like, and, and I want to ask you, uh, of course, from a wholesale perspective, you’re, you’re selling on fare, but to me, it almost seems like these kinds of items would do really well, like retail brick and mortar, kind of like if you can get distribution into retail, have you, yeah, can you talk a little bit about your channels and have you kind of tried getting into, uh, some of the pet stores and so forth?

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: So, yeah, I’ve, I’m in probably. [00:14:00] 125 pet stores or something. Um, and, and that’s, that’s a really, really great way for me to build my business, which is what I’ve probably put most of my effort into, um, in, in the last couple of months, I actually. It’s like the old fashioned, you know, pavement pounding. I am, I’m sending samples to pet stores, um, and calling them and, um, following up and following up and following up.

And honestly, I have a really, really good conversion rate. When I send a sample of my products, I think everybody’s sick of getting email and they ignore it. And I did try that method for a long time, but nothing sells my products. I found it. Um, like having it, you know, in your hand, not only can they see the packaging, which is very unique, but they can take the item out and let the store kitties play with it or take it home to their own cats.

And once they do, and they see how much cats really, really enjoy, um, especially the wool toys, that’s what I’ve been sending a sample of. It’s, um, pretty inexpensive to ship those. Um, I, [00:15:00] I almost always get an order, so

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: It’s, yeah, I mean, I, I, I have to say this wool octopus definitely just catches your eyes.

It’s like, uh, I mean, I would think even little babies would play with this. I don’t know if there’s any .

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: I, I don’t know if you have kids Suan, but you can’t, you can’t give strings to kids . Okay. Okay.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: I don’t, I don’t, but, but, but hey, if you have this idea and the market fit, I, I mean, maybe, um, you know, you can.

adopt something for like little baby than have like a

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: It’s a highly regulated industry, the children’s market and uh, you know cats fortunately or unfortunately are not pets. I have almost no protections in the market, which is why I’m, I want to build trust with my customers. I want them to understand that they can buy from me because I’ve thought of all of those things.

My cardboard boxes, for example, you’ve mentioned that people use their Amazon boxes for their cats. My cardboard boxes, and [00:16:00] unlike my competitors, my cardboard boxes are printed with soy and water based inks. My inks are FDA approved for contact with, you know, human food or human food packaging. The toners and adhesives that I use on the stickers on my gingerbread house, same thing.

These wool toys are 100 percent New Zealand wool. And, uh, the Xbox actually has a little bit of silk in it too. Um, these are, you know, they’re, they’re azo free dyes, which are a much safer dye, um, than anything else you might be, you know, just purchasing, um, you know, at your, at your big box store. So people don’t know that, that, that when they’re buying something for their pets, that there’s really very little oversight.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: So which is your hero product? I mean, uh, I, I know you said the, um, This will octopus and, and, uh, the cardboard gingerbread or some

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: gingerbread house that sells really, really well at Christmas. It’s probably my biggest revenue generator. People really love the milk [00:17:00] carton that I’ve shown you. And people like to, I’ve had people just buy it for their, for their stores, like just to have, um, you know, something to catch people’s eye in the, in the, um, You know, uh, in the storefront.

Um, but my biggest sellers now are actually the wool toys. Those are doing really, really well for me. Um, and, and, and that’s because, um, you know, people are looking for, uh, unusual things for them, for their cats and cats are notoriously difficult to shop for. They have, you know, just. Genetically, they were designed to be suspicious of new things and people think, oh, they don’t like it.

But the truth is they just need to get used to things. But there’s something about wool, um, and nobody really knows what it is. That is very, very appealing to cats. And so they take to it right away and people think, oh, you know, they like that toy. And that is true. They do like it. They probably would like some of the other things if you just let them sit there a little longer and not return them

Um, but wool is really, really, uh, appealing. Substance for cats and for [00:18:00] people, um, one of the nice things about will is that it is eco friendly. It’s renewable. It’s compostable. Um, it’s a, you know, it’s really an environmentally friendly material.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Yes, for sure. I mean, wool is natural. So, um, so your target market, of course it’s a niche, but I would assume still, uh, uh, a decent size niche niche, because, you know, I, I know there’s many people who have cats as pet, um, what have you learned about your target market and do you think it’s a big enough, uh, category for you to play into or.

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: Yeah, well, I will say this. First of all, there are more cats than dogs in the United States. I’m sure that number probably surprises you. The cat market is currently a 43 billion market. So it’s a big, big market. And I don’t even think that’s scratching the surface, so to speak. Uh, we buy things for our dog.

We treat our dogs and I have two dogs. So this, this is no knock on me. And if you may, you may see them in a [00:19:00] minute. Um, you go into a pet store. Everything you can imagine for your dog is there. There are 50 stuffed animals that your dog is going to shred apart in five minutes in these, you know, upscale pet stores.

The cat sections in these pet stores are minuscule. Some people don’t feel that they should spend money on cats. Until very recently, we kept our cats outside, and they had all the toys they needed outside. Now we’ve brought our cats indoors, and they, and we do need, um, to keep them interested, and to keep them occupied, and to fulfill their very cat shelves, um, to keep them from having health and behavioral problems.

And I think, you know, um, Pet stores are going to do a better job of educating their customers about that in the very near future, that you’ve got to keep it really, really interesting for cats, um, to keep them healthy if you’re going to keep them indoors, which I, which I recommend. So I think, I think we’re just, I think I’ve just hit the market at the very, very beginning.

Um, and so, uh, so this actually, the bull toy, the octopus in particular is [00:20:00] a 25 cat toy. And I, um, I’ve had, uh, pet retailers say to me, I can’t sell a 20, my customers won’t buy a 20 toy for their cats, but they do buy them. So that’s what I say. I, I mean, I just placed an order, um, that I’m hopefully getting in about two weeks.

That is two was two and a half times the size of my last order. I mean, people are buying 25 cat toys. I think people are just coming around to the idea that cats. need as many things to keep their lives interesting as dogs do.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: By the way, just, just an observation. I mean, you said you’re, you have had a CFA background and you’ve been a housewife.

I think, I think, I think you can do, I mean, you would have done really well in sales. I think you have a sales personality.

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: Sushant, I am a raging introvert. So sales, I have to say, um, I, when I started doing the sales, I, um, I, I did it all by email because I really just don’t want to. I have to call people now.

I do. I actually like [00:21:00] calling people now because I actually am successful at it. And yeah, I’m having such a great response to it. But the, the, the, the introvert in me says, Oh my God, I can’t believe people do sales all day long because it’s hard, it’s hard to do sales.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Yeah, I mean, you know what I’ve learned because, you know, I contact people for this interview and things like this, and I’ve done some sales in the past as well.

I think at the end of the day, sales is really just a numbers game. It’s like you have to look at it very objectively. It’s like you have to figure out your number. Like if you contact 20 people. You know, at a certain point, you know, that three of them are going to convert and you have to become very comfortable with it.

And you have to become comfortable, I guess, optimizing that number over time. And then I think sales become more manageable.

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: Right. You’re a hundred percent right. A hundred percent.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: So do you now think [00:22:00] about growing your business? Do you think, uh, I mean, I, I believe you mentioned that you’re working on a new product.

Is your focus really on. getting distribution of your existing products as much as possible. You know, you said it’s a big, you know, big market, or are you working on new products that can help you cover more area?

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: It’s actually both. So I, I, I have to penetrate more stores. If they sell my items, they’re just going to keep buying.

But what I found is that a lot of my, um, My kind of target customers, they tend to be very small, upscale, boutique-y kind of stores that sell very specialized things. They’re not just your generic, um, just cat food and litter boxes. And they can’t buy a hundred of something. They can buy a dozen of something.

But they could buy a dozen of this and a dozen of that and a dozen of that. And so I feel like I need to have more [00:23:00] options for them. And, the thing about thinking about cats all day long, which I do. And I talk to cat people all day long. They email me with all kinds of questions and comments and photos of their cats that I keep coming up with. Oh, we don’t, this, this doesn’t exist and this doesn’t exist and this doesn’t exist, or I don’t like the way that’s made.

And I mean, My life’s not going to be long enough to develop all of the ideas that I already have. So, and, and my bank account isn’t big enough to pursue them all at once. And I don’t have enough hours in the day to do that, but I’m going to do them one by one and, um, and see how it goes. But I really think that I just need more things to sell to these retail customers.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: I want to switch to marketing a little bit because, um, I mean, you are in a niche that is, uh, you know, people are very passionate about their pet pets, uh, you know, whether it’s cats, cats or dogs. And this kind of industry also makes it. Easy to generate user generated [00:24:00] content, because, you know, people like to take photos of their, uh, uh, cats and things like this.

Can you talk a little bit about your marketing? I mean, it seems like you’re not doing a lot of paid marketing, mostly organic and social. Um, what is working really well and what is kind of your approach to marketing this?

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: So you’re 100 percent right. I don’t do a lot of paid marketing. I just can’t afford it, um, except for PPC on Amazon.

And I do just a bare minimum of that, to be honest. The two methods that I use, um, are one you’ve just mentioned, which is user generated content. Almost, probably 99 and a half percent of my social content is user generated. I simply ask people, could you take a picture of your cat or could you take a video of your cat for me with my products?

And everybody, you know, It’s helpful. They really, I mean, I think part of it is developing the relationship with the customer and I’m talking about, um, you know, my, my direct customers, customers who buy off a website or, [00:25:00] um, you know, directly from me in some other way. And so people want to see their cats on social media and they want to help me because I have made it a personal thing with them.

I, you know, so, um, so that’s one way. People see other people’s cats enjoying my products and they know that it’s real. I’m not just selling to them. And then the other way that I reach out to people is through my blog. I write very well researched and I, and I don’t want to pat myself on the back too much or sound like I’m lacking in humility here, but it is well written.

Um, Uh, about topics of interest to cat guardians. So specifically things about cat health and cat behavior and about the questions that are on every cat owner’s mind. You know, like, why does my cat, why is my cat afraid of cucumbers? Um, why does my cat stick his butt in my face? I mean, Everything that a cat guardian is asking, I want to answer ultimately.

And so lots of people find me on Google that way, they [00:26:00] type the answer, the question, and they find the answer. And then they, you know, become part of my email marketing sequence. So, um, and that’s, you know, twofold for me. One is. That’s a great way to get people on my email list. And the other thing is it’s a great way for me to establish myself as the expert that I mentioned before, people feel that they can trust me with their pets, that I’m not just somebody who’s just trying to make a buck.

I’m somebody who cares about cats and I’m not going to sell you something that your cat’s not going to like, or that is going to be unsafe for your cat that I, so, um, so that is part of developing the relationship with the customer over the long term. Okay.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Yeah, I just looked at your, your blog, it’s, uh, I mean, it looks really good.

It has a lot of photos and videos and, you know, really, I guess, long form kind of content. And, you know, you have your references there at the end. I mean, it definitely, uh, It definitely gives you credibility. Like if somebody comes on this page [00:27:00] to be able to see that, yes, it’s a well referenced, well researched post with a lot of great information.

Yeah. I think, uh, that will generate a lot of, uh, trust for sure. Um, is your business, what percentage of your business is B2B versus B2C? I’m assuming it’s mostly B2B now.

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: No, it’s actually mostly direct to the consumer. I’m going to say it’s probably 2575 right now, but I’m working on building the, um, the, the B2B that I really think that’s the future for me.

I, to be honest, I, I’m sure you, you’re well aware of this, it’s getting difficult to rely on other platforms and, uh, fair is not my only, I I do sell directly off of my, you know, website to, um, uh, to some of my wholesale customers. But it’s, you know, Facebook has changed and, um, Amazon is changing all the time and it is becoming really, really hard to rely on these other platforms for my living.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Definitely. [00:28:00] Yes, for sure. Um, in terms of your fulfillment and shipping, um, can you talk a little bit about, I mean, let me first ask you about your team. Um, you’re looking at it. I don’t. Okay. So, so these items, like, are you warehousing at your home?

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: I’ve got, I’ve got a storage facility. I’ve got some things here with me so that I always have, you know, stuff I can pack up.

And I mean, my husband has a full time job. He works from home. And in the evenings, he is packing with me. He helps me drag stuff to the post office and to UPS. But yeah, it’s, that’s gotta, that’s gonna be changing. It’s gonna, this can’t go on like this forever. I’ll have to, there’ll have to be another way.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Do you think you’re going to like, uh, leverage, I mean, to me, it seems like your volume is increasing and so it’s kind of becoming, um, not manageable.

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: Are you, are you thinking about

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: like,

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: Yeah, possibly I would probably have to hire somebody and it’s really living in the [00:29:00] Boston area. No, there’s so many jobs like this available, you know, you know, minimum wage type jobs, even though the minimum wage in Massachusetts is excellent.

It’s just, it’s going to be hard to find somebody to be honest with. You know, I would probably look for, um, stay at home mothers like me. Um, if there are any left, um, to do something like this, to help me out. Uh, it’s, it’s, you know, Yeah, one of the things I get excited every time I get a new order from a new customer that I just sold to, and then I’m like, oh crap, I got to pack all this stuff.

So, um, it’s a good problem to have, but it’s also taking a lot of my time away from the other things that I need to do, like selling, like writing my blog, like, so, um, yeah.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Yeah. I mean, it becomes tedious, right? Like you would, you would much rather be thinking about how to generate more sales, like, but not packaging your, your, uh, items to send to customers.

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: Right. Right.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Are you mostly selling in the U. S. right now? Are you selling some internationally as well?

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: I had [00:30:00] sold a little more internationally before through FAIR. As you know, especially Europe, as you know, um, it’s becoming harder to sell to the UK and to Germany because of the laws there that have changed.

And so that has really, uh, dwindled. Truthfully, I had some good customers abroad that I just aren’t buying from me. And I, I can’t, I can’t be bothered with the paperwork that’s involved with selling, especially the, to Germany and to the UK. They’re just, it’s too difficult. So, um, That’s unfortunate.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Okay. Uh, I mean, I’ve heard a lot of people leverage distributors, uh, for international markets. I think that makes things a little bit easier.

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: That’ll probably be something I’ll have to consider in the future, but it’s not a primary focus for me now.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Okay. Um, do you think about like, you know, now that you’ve kind of figured out e-commerce in a way, you know, you’ve, you’ve [00:31:00] got a lot of experience with marketing, you know, working with Amazon, fair, different kinds of platforms.

Do you want to, I mean, I would assume that’s the case is you want to continue focusing on this niche only, or do you think that, you know, you can take this idea and kind of replicate it for a different market, like a dog market or a different animal?

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: I had two lifetimes, yes, but I don’t know how people run two businesses, unless they’re two very tightly related businesses.

No, I, I, this is more than I can handle truthfully. And I have so much further to go with this one. I mean, I really feel like I’m just at the beginning.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: For sure. Um, in every entrepreneur’s journey, there’s always mistakes made. lessons learned, uh, failures. What has been your, you know, one or two big mistakes or failures that you think you could have avoided in the process?

And what did you learn? What can other entrepreneurs learn from your mistakes?

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: Well, one of the things I did was make my products too big to start with. And I, [00:32:00] I didn’t understand about shipping. And at the time that I started, there were shipping rates that were different. There was a, I forget it was what it was called, parcel something, parcel select.

That’s what it was called. And that made it, um, reasonable to ship these larger items. And people love getting something that’s already assembled. People hate assembling things. And I got that comment all the time. So nice to have it arrival all assembled, but it’s too expensive to ship these items now.

And, um, So I had to go back to the drawing board and and figure out how to make them a lot more compact and my And it took almost a year for the first to make the first one more compact Which was my gingerbread house and and then even with that even after I redesigned it completely bought all new tooling There were still issues with that product because even though I found it very simple to assemble Other people did not find it easy to assemble And I mean, I tried everything videos and I have beautifully written instructions, you know, um, that I had an artist make for [00:33:00] me amazing instructions and people still found it too difficult.

So I had to go back to the drawing board a third time and redesign them to make it more foolproof, um, to, to assemble. So, and I think I’m there now though that, that product’s about perfect. Um, and there really isn’t any other product exactly like it on the market. So, um, that’s that, but that’s one of my many mistakes.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Do you think that that makes it a little bit, uh, challenging for other like Chinese businesses to kind of copy it, you know, because it does require a little bit of, you know, that design aspect to make it compact and things like this, or are you finding, I mean, I did, I think you mentioned briefly, there are some similar products in the market now.

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: There are, and honestly, they’re doing great on it, but they’re, they’re junk. And I don’t, I don’t know, I guess people like things that are cheaper, even if it’s. Or, you know, maybe my customers are not those customers, um, but I know that I’m, I, I volunteer [00:34:00] at a cat shelter and they have a lot of those products that people have donated and they’re, um, flimsy and small.

They have small plastic parts that I would never put in my products because I, I care that cats don’t choke to death. And, um, People don’t mind, some people don’t mind buying things with little tiny parts and, and things made out of, um, you know, pl you know, made out of plastic or inks that have not been tested, and that’s, you know, they’re, they’re their choice to do it that way.

That’s just not something I can comfortably do.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: No, I think that that definitely helps you probably build, build, uh, a brand, right? Like people can buy a product from some, from someone, but I think if you’re, if you want to build a brand and a long term Uh, success with, uh, new product lines and so forth. I think that, you know, just the focus on quality is definitely going to help you in the long run.

It’s

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: important to me personally, especially as an animal lover, I could never imagine having created something that ended up [00:35:00] hurting somebody’s beloved pet.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: For sure. Uh, now we’re going to move on to our rapid fire segment. In this segment, I’m going to ask you a few quick questions and you have to answer them maybe in a word or a sentence or so.

So the first one is, uh, and to me, it seems like you’re a book lover, one book recommendation for entrepreneurs and why?

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: influence Robert Cialdini. It’s a scientific approach to how people think and why they buy.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Awesome. Um, an innovative product or idea in the current e commerce, retail or tech landscape that you feel excited about?

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: Nothing. I mean, truly I’m waiting for the next thing. I’m waiting. I’m, I’m tired of Facebook and Google and Amazon, and I’m waiting for the next thing.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Any, any, um, any products, like any, uh, physical products that you enjoy using?

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: Well, I have to say, I have a lot of friends in the entrepreneurial space.

People like me, women like me at the beginnings of their [00:36:00] businesses all doing great stuff. And I hate to single one or, you know, or two of them out. There are a lot of people doing great stuff out there. You got to find those, those indie, indie sellers.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: a business or productivity tool or software that you would recommend or a productivity tip.

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: My productivity tip is to step away from your business every day. I’ve got dogs. I walk dogs in the middle of the afternoon. I promise you, you will think better after you’ve gone and walked a dog.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: That’s a great advice for sure. Um, another startup or business that you think is currently doing great things. I mean, you said you don’t want to, but

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: a

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: peer entrepreneur or business person whom you look up to, or someone who inspires you.

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: I’ve got two actually. I’ve got two mentors that have been incredibly helpful to me. Mike Jackness of Ecomp Crew and Steve Chu of MyWifeQuitHerJob. They both offer courses. I’m in both of their courses. They’re [00:37:00] brilliant people and super, super helpful to entrepreneurs like me.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Awesome. And their advice has helped you grow your business?

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: I mean, I couldn’t have done it without them, truthfully.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Awesome. Uh, final question. What is the best business advice that you have ever received or you would give to other entrepreneurs?

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: My best advice to give would be to just start Not wait till you have all of your ducks in a row because they will never be in a row and the minute You think you’ve got it all down something changes just start you’ll go from there.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Awesome Well, don those were all the questions that I had. Thank you so much for sharing your story entrepreneurial story Uh sharing about your products some of the challenges that you had and your successes Um, if anybody is looking to buy your product, what is the best way to do that?

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: The cat is in the box dot com

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: cat is in the box dot com.

Well, Dawn, thank you so much again. And, uh, uh, thank you for your time today and wish you all the very best.

Dawn LaFontaine of Cat in the box: Oh, thank you, Sushant. It was a pleasure [00:38:00] talking to you.