The $500K Kickstarter Torch That Changed Grilling Forever – Bob Healey of GrillBlazer

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Hey there, entrepreneurs. My name is Sushant and welcome to Treptalks This is the show where I interview successful e-commerce entrepreneurs, business executives, and thought leaders, and ask them questions about their business stories and dive deep into some of the strategies and tactics that they have used to start and grow their businesses.

And today I’m really excited to welcome Bob Healey to the show. Bob is the founder and inventor of GrillBlazer Grillblazer is a US-based company specializing in high powered propane torches, designed for grilling culinary applications and outdoor fire. Starting their flagship product include the grill gun and the SUV gun, both engineered to deliver intense clean burning flames for various users.

And today I’m going to ask Bob a few questions about his entrepreneur journey. And some of the Australian tech that he had used to start and grow his business. Now, before we dive into this interview, if you enjoy this content, please make sure to hit the like and subscribe button and for more interviews like this, please visit treptalks.com And with that, Bob, welcome and thank you so much for joining me today, treptalks Really, really appreciate your time.

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: Thank you very much. Sushant.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: So Grill Blazer, I mean a very interesting product. Uh, is this your invention? Uh, how did you come up with the idea, uh, what were you doing before? And yeah, what motivated you to start this business?

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: So it was 2017 and I had had let my charcoal grill as I normally do every week. And I was using at the time a high-powered weed torch that you could pick up anywhere online, Harbor freight, that sort of thing. It’s just a, a propane torch that’s, you know. Some 500,000 B two or so, you know, roofing torches, weed torches, that sort of stuff.

And they’re, they’re basically all just pieces of garbage. Um, they’re pretty poor quality. The igniter system doesn’t work. And so for 15 years I had been lighting my charcoal grill with the weed torch because it’s the best, most efficient way of lighting a charcoal grill, but it’s really clumsy. Um, so a weed torch for people who don’t know anything about what that is, it’s, you know, three, four foot long wand with a fire, be on one end of it and, um, shoots out high power propane on the other end.

But it’s very efficient at lighting, charcoal. I’ll give you that when they work. And, you know, i, I grill every week or. Um, you know, barbecue outside or, um, smoker or something of that nature. And so I go through them two or three a year pretty easily because they just, they’re, the design is not very robust.

And so I just lit my grill and threw some steaks on using the old standby, um, frustrated again because this torch was gonna have to be replaced. And I just kind of mused to my sons who were out there with me. It was December and it was freezing cold outside and 30 degrees snow was blowing, but we’re under the roof of the wraparound porch.

And I said, what’s it gonna take for somebody to design a really decent torch? Something that is, that is designed for the purpose of lighting a charcoal grill. I mean, just really super fast, super easy, and really cool. And so they didn’t. You know, maybe it was the beer they were drinking, but they didn’t take long to kinda loosen up and say, Hey dad, so you gotta make it look like a gun.

And I said, okay. So I pushed back, I said, you know, well a lot of people aren’t gonna like a gun. Like, like half the people in the country don’t like guns. And they pretty well convinced me that the other half does. And so, not to be shy of that, that if you’re gonna make a good torch and you wanna have people wanna buy it, it’s gotta be something that’s pleasant for them to look at and use.

So my background was engineering and, and, uh, building businesses and management. And I, so I really, I took that to heart and I thought about it and I said, you know, I’m just gonna create it. Well, there was no notion of a grill gun at that time. It was just a, a torch that looked like a gun. And so I. A couple of weeks later, I, I, I got a pistol outta my safe and set it down on the desk in front of me and put the torch next to it, the one I was gonna have to replace and said, now how to make you look like you, or, you know, you look like you, how, however you wanna look at it.

I said, well, what’s it gonna take to make that happen? Now the, the urgency in doing this didn’t exist. You don’t have to have a torch that looks like a gun, but it’s really, really cool. And anybody who’s ever used a grill gun, the power and the, the control that you have to have, you know, an excess of an in excess of 400,000 B two, at any time you use it, it’ll light your charcoal instantly.

That’s, that’s what my goal was, is to make the best torch possible out there. So that from all respects that it is, um, not only cool to use that people would wanna buy it because in the 15 years that, that I’ve been using weed torches, nobody ever said, I think that’s cool and I want to go get one. Hmm. It just didn’t happen.

And so I started designing, um, what would ultimately end up being the grill gun. And it took me, oh, so I had to learn 3D modeling, you know, being an engineer and being manager and hiring engineers and, and, uh, having them do three mod, 3D modeling. I’d never done it myself, but, so I, I bought a cell, a license for SolidWorks and started modeling it and pretty soon I was staring in virtual space at what would ultimately become a grill gun.

And then I had to go about making it so a small little engine lathe and, um, in mill. And bought a 3D printer. And I printed the parts and machined the parts that I needed. And so in May of, so that was in December, 2017, I thought of it or decided I was gonna do it. And then by May of 2018, just five months later, I actually was holding my first torch that looked like a gun.

I didn’t have the notion that it was called a grill gunner, that I was gonna try to go for that one niche market because with high powered fire like that, you can do most anything. Um, so in order to do it being an engineer, I had to create a list of the things that the perfect torch would need to have.

And I, I think it’s 11 items on the list. You can see that list on the website@blazer.com if you’re interested. But if I couldn’t design the perfect torch, which required all of those elements, then it wasn’t gonna be any good in my mind. Because that’s just the kind of engineer that I am. It’s all about making it just exactly right.

So, um, that’s, that’s how it actually got started. It was an idea that came out of frustration from what was available, and there was no notion of a, a torch that you actually, that was actually designed to light the charcoal grill in the way I was using it. And so the grill gun came to life like that, you know, as an idea.

And I was holding one, and then I had to go through an awful lot to, which is where your ENT entrepreneurs would be interested in knowing is, well, how do you take it from the notion of a prototype that you’re holding in your hand into trying to figure out how to sell something like that. I mean, you can Well, I’m, you

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: can,

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: I mean, even

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: before that, you can do all kinds of

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: things to, uh, I, sorry, I don’t mean to interrupt.

Go ahead.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Uh, sorry to interrupt you, but even before that, I am interested because to me it seems like you were pretty, because you are an engineer, you were pretty hands on with the whole design process. Like you, you designed it on the software and then you kind of did the machining yourself. You, you know, you created the prototype yourself.

I mean, I’m even interested to know, because not everybody has that skill. Like, you know, you know, if somebody is in your position, let’s say and thinks, you know, there should be a better, uh, grilling gun out there, you know, and they’re not an engineer. I mean, they, they can probably hire a designer or, you know, find, uh, find someone else for, find an engineer who can probably help them through this process.

So I’m, uh, my question for you is. What was kind of the innovation in this, in your product? Is it, I mean, design in one design is one thing, you know, of course it has to look like a gun. It has to look cool, so people get excited about it. But was there any other innovation that went into it? Like is it, um, is it that it throws the flame, uh, at a certain speed or what is kind of the innovation, um, that you came up with, which, which makes this, uh, a little bit different?

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: So when you design anything, whatever, whatever it is, in my case, it was a, a propane torch. You have to understand what the product ultimately has to do. And so if it’s a matter of, uh, sort of copying what somebody else has done by looking at it and observing, that’s one thing. But there really was nothing out there that would instantly light.

A charcoal grill and I had to figure out why. Now I’ve been telling you that I’ve been lighting charcoal grills for, you know, 15 years with weed torches. And people who do that understand that, but the torches are not as hot. I went through a whole range of prototype designs, what is, you know, an innovation of taking a grill gun and putting it on a one pound bottle.

So it’s a one pound propane bottle that you buy ’em and listed, you know, on the internet under, uh, I think brands are Coleman and Burn Matic. And so it is just a little one pound propane bottle, but if you were to put a wheated torch on that, it would suck the propane out of the bottle so fast that you would just run out of fuel.

So it had to, it had to be very miserly, it had to sit propane. And in so doing, I would, I would create. An absolutely clean burn, which burns at 3,600 degrees. So the guarantee out of the torch is that it’s gonna burn at 3,600 degrees. Or if you’re using map gas, uh, which is not really map gas, but it’s conventionally called that it’s propane and it’ll burn at 3,700 degrees hot enough to sweat copper if you’re, if you’re soldering plumbing again, more than you need to know, but I, but lighting wood doesn’t require that kind of temperature.

But what it, what it does see, when you make charcoal, you basically catch the wood on fire up until the point that it burns. And so you, and you don’t allow it to burn, but it’s ready to burn and it’s just been cooled back down to simplify the process. And so if you’re gonna light it instantly, now, when I say instantly, I mean.

I’ll demonstrate it all the time. You take lump charcoal and I, and you hit it with a grill gun and in four seconds it’s lit. I mean, it’s just that fast and it’s, it’s so hot that it does the job, which is an innovation itself. So to innovate and create a torch that would light charcoal nearly instantly, and, um, be able to operate portable so that it sits in on a one pound bottle so that it’s very convenient and you don’t have to have a big hose going off to 20 pound bottle.

You can, you can throw it in your trunk. You can, you know, put it in a, a suitcase and check it on a plane. You, it’s, it’s just ultimate, well, you can’t put the propane on plane. Don’t want anybody misunderstand that. You can’t fly with, uh, you know, liquid propane, but you can the torch. And so, so a, a necessary innovation was, is first finding out what does it really take to light charcoal instantly and, and then designed for that.

Then, uh, how to, how to get it to consume the fuel in the most efficient manner, which are innovations that are unique to the, to the grill gun. And then the last thing is, is the most notoriously flawed aspect of anybody’s torch out there is that the igniter will fail. They always do. You know, if you use a torch, the way they ignite is that you use a PSO electricite or a um, um, push button lighter of some sort that generates a high voltage spark, which creates a static spark inside the gun and lights the fuel on fire.

In order to light the fuel on fire. The fuel has to be very rich in fuel, otherwise it won’t light. That’s one thing. And the other thing is that the igniter has to be in the flow of fuel, otherwise it won’t light it because it’s not in the fuel. Those two characteristics. Are what causes torches to burn up.

So if I’m gonna have one that will never burn up, which that’s the girl gun, you know, and it’s, uh, smaller brother, the suvy gun, if I’m gonna create a torch, that’s not gonna, that’s one on that was on my list. I had to innovate the way to make it to where you’ll never have your igniter burnout. You’ll never have your electrode burnout.

So those are. They’re actually patented, um, um, innovations that went into it. So the gun is, is very ergonomic. It’s balanced, it fits well in the hand. It doesn’t, it’s not nose heavy, it’s not rear end heavy. Uh, it feels comfortable. It’s designed for a grip for ergonomic, uh, application right there. Whether or not you’re using the grill gun to light charcoal or you’re using the vie to sear your meat directly that’s been cooked sobi, which is another topic.

I mean, if you don’t know what soy cooking is, then we could spend some time describing that too. But that’s why the suvy gun came into existence. There was no such thing as a suvy gun or a culinary high-powered torch. Those are all complete innovations that I came out with in creating the grill gun. So I had this great high-powered torch and it could light charcoal, but it could also be.

A, um, a searing gun. Par Exelon, the best one out there, and there were innovations to get it to do that too. So I guess I’m, I could spend all day talking about it. I, I don’t mean to monopolize the conversation, Suan, you just have to, I mean, it seems like you,

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: you created something really innovative here and you patented some of those things.

Uh, how long did it take you to go through the whole research and creation process?

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: Oh, gosh. Well, the research was pretty fast. You know, with the, in internet available and, uh, being able to read white papers on whatever would be necessary, wherever the design process was, I was able to learn pretty quickly learning how to, how to make a torch that’s safe to apply directly to food, for instance, I could, I could research that and then I, whatever I researched, I’d have to build and test it.

So. Just to say you want it to do something isn’t the same thing as to actually have it do it. So you actually have to have, uh, you really have to have the goal insight. What do you want it to do at the end? In my case, I wanted it to, to do those 11 or 12 elements that I said that I needed it to do, and then I needed to, um, figure out how to make it do that now.

So other people who don’t have the background that I have, they, you know, depending upon how complicated their idea is, they have to find that source and, and generally those people are not free. And in an earlier life, when I spent some more time, I. I just developed, I hung my shingle out as somebody who could design stuff for people.

’cause that’s what I, I’d always done, I’d always designed products for other companies. Hmm. And I just wanted to stop viewing that and design something for myself. That was the impetus. You know, I want to start my own company and I want to create my own thing and not make something new for somebody else for once.

So that’s where I went down the road and I, so I made a list, boy, that was back in 2015. So two years earlier, I made a list of things that I wanted to do if I ever had time to do it. So I had to quit having a day job, you know, and I had to actually focused my life on what did I wanna do. And these are all characteristics that a successful entrepreneur has to actually be able to do.

You’ve got to put yourself in it. You can’t be an entrepreneur, a successful entrepreneur, you know, by day if, if there’s any competition. So now that’s not true. If you are uniquely the most talented orator or something like that, and you have the ability to to do things that other people cannot do that are not, uh, duplicable, then you can, you can do that in, in your spare time, but to innovate and create the product and have it come to market, but it, it’s a lot of work to do and you either have to do it yourself.

Track 1: Hmm.

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: Young budding entrepreneur out there. You either have to do it yourself or you have to find somebody who will do it, and that’ll cost you money. So then you have to find how you’re gonna find the resources, you know, to be able to pay for that. And I, I really found that there were, there were hundreds of people that had great ideas.

And all that I had to do was create it for them and then they would share the money with me. Right. So that, that just never happens. You know, I would, as a developer of things, I would never just say, sure, I’ll design it for you and then leave it up to you to figure out how to bring it to market so I get paid back.

Ooh. That, that no engineering company, no engineer would actually do that unless you were related to them, like married to them, or they were somehow a family member because Well,

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: yeah,

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: you, you really have to give it your all to make it work.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Yeah. I mean, in those kind of situations, it’s usually like. Where you see the co-founding, uh, partners, right?

Like you have one person who’s technical in your situation. It’s really more of a, I guess, you know, real engineering, uh, these days you see it more with computer engineers, right? Where you have a technical person creating the, the digital product, and then you have more of the marketer Sure. Business person bringing it to.

So I think, yeah, you are, you’re completely correct. Either you have, you know, you, you’re bringing it to life yourself, or you have the money to, you know, have hire people who can bring it to life, which I think is a more tricky situation because not. Even if somebody is an engineer, and not everybody has the, I, I think the inclination to, to create new products and things like this.

Uh, and then you have like, you know, the situation where you have co-founders, where, you know, there’s equity division and people, uh, you know, are equally invested into bringing an idea to market. Um, oh, and

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: that’s the most difficult thing to do, you know, having a partner of some sort. Well, partnerships are really, really bad because some, sometimes the, you know, someone has to make a decision and you can’t agree who’s gonna win.

So that has to be all spelled out right up front because a lot of those co-founder ideas, they start out thinking, you know, we’ll just knock this out and it doesn’t go the way they want it to. And now push and shove are coming together and, um, you just have unhappy people and a lot of people that dissolves friendships and, um, ends up badly for a lot of people.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Very true. Very true. And I, I’ve heard a lot of those stories as well.

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: Oh yeah, I’m sure you have.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Yeah. So let’s, let’s move on. So, so now you have the prototype, the right, you know, your 12, 13 criteria that you wanted this, uh, product to have. You nailed it, right? You have a prototype, you have it in the right, uh, design that you wanted it in.

Uh, what, what, what is next? Did you, from, from the per aspect of bringing it to market, um, did you kind of validate your idea in any way? Did you, like, take it to like a trade show or somewhere where you kind of got some customer feedback? Can you share a little bit about how you kind of took the prototype to market and got your customer?

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: That’s a, that’s a very interesting story actually, because, um, it’s a true entrepreneurial journey. So. Now I’m holding a prototype. Now that’s hard for some people to come up with, but people believe in a prototype, whether or not it’s a piece of software or, um, a, a durable good or whatever. You’re doing an idea.

People have all kinds of ideas, but when you bring it to reality, then people will pay attention to it. So at the time that I was doing this, I thought this is the best thing ever. Right. It, I was happy, I liked it. I thought it was great. Didn’t know what to call it exactly, because it could be so many things.

It could, you know, melt ice, it could light your fireplace. So I ended up having to, to zero in on, um, what the, the most exciting application would be is this, this entire notion of lighting a charcoal grill or searing meat directly that’s been cooked to eat. So I establish a story about it, you know, and what it’s good for and I like it.

And then I have to go. Out to trusted friends and that sort of stuff, and let them try it. Now, you can’t let them try an idea, but you can let them try a prototype and then, then that. So I, I, um, started showing it to people and watching how they used it. And I learned two things about it real quickly, that people are not always a as adept at using something as I am, especially if I’m the one who designed it.

So you’ve gotta get it whatever you’re doing in somebody else’s hand to see how they, um, maybe foul it up or, um, do something you never anticipated with it, that sort of thing. So that was a, a very necessary step. That took really several months of getting in front of people and demonstrating and, and letting them see it and having an audience.

Uh, it starts with friends goes to. Meetings that you can get in front of people because you’re pouring yourself into this. Nobody’s doing it for you. You have to do it yourself. And so you find all the ways that are possible to make that happen. And so it may be another iteration, you know, or two. In my case, I iterated on it for probably six months, taking things that I learned by watching people use it.

Oh my gosh. I went to, um, one of the, the most interesting things was I went to a Texas high school barbecue Cookoff, right? So, um, I had a bunch of high school kids. Now that sounds like a dangerous thing. Um, it really wasn’t because they really were into lighting, charcoal, and, and, uh. They were competent people and teachers were involved.

And so I got to see how just somebody who never used one before uses it, that sort of thing. So that continued the whole iteration process. Meanwhile, I was trying to figure out how I was gonna get this funded. You know, all these things that I’m doing all by myself. I’m not independently wealthy. I don’t have the resource that it takes to bring a new product to market.

So I have to go out looking for capital. And if I were peddling a.com or a pharmaceutical, it would’ve been pretty easy, you know, with high quality product to find money because people know what that is. But a gun that shoots fire is not exactly something people jump up and say, I want, I want in on that.

And the reason is, is because it’s, they have no experience with it. They. People could burn themselves with it, you know, so you can hit yourself with a 16 pound sledgehammer too. You just don’t do that. So it, it was not an easy sell. So in 20, so in 2018, I spent that year the whole, so I, I had the prototype in the first prototype in May, and then I went through, and that was one that was completely handmade.

And then I started having more prototypes made so that I could actually put ’em in hands of other people in order to be able to do these events that I was talking about, or send them to YouTube influencers if I could find anybody that would be interested, that sort of thing. Mm-hmm. Meanwhile, I had to figure out where in the world was I gonna get it manufactured and how was it gonna pay for that?

And so that was, again, you can’t do this part-time. You have to put your yourself into it and do it every single day. Sometimes, you know, you’re getting two days worth of work in for every day that people think of as a day when you start early and in late and fall asleep and do it again tomorrow. And so that’s, that ultimately, um, spun me all the way around till to February of 2019.

Now, in February, 2019, I knew where, where I was gonna have it manufactured. I had quotes. I knew what it was cost, what it would cost. I had all the financial model of, of, um, creating and selling it down. I just didn’t know how I was gonna pay for it. And I had talked to a lot of investor type people and everybody wanted to spend very little money on it because they didn’t understand it.

And they, there, there were no comparables. A comp is the idea of something else on the market to, to show you what the value of it is.

Track 1: Hmm.

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: And. So there was nothing. ’cause it, it’s a new category, a high-powered culinary torch was a new category. And so I, so it was in February of 2019 that I, I decided I was gonna have to learn how to do Kickstarter.

Now are, are you familiar, I’m sure a lot of your entrepreneurs would know about Yes. Altruistic crowdfunding.

Track 1: Yes.

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: So I was gonna have to do Kickstarter, so, so from some February of 2019 through May of 2019, so that’s February, March, April, and May. So better part of four months. I studied Kickstarter intensely.

You know, I looked at all of the, uh, the programs that had been successful and I analyzed them from every aspect. How, how big were they? What colors were they using? What’s the font size? How long did videos play? How, what kind of images they use, what colors they use. Um, how do you, you know, you contact people that had, had been successful on Kickstarter and try and understand how to be successful on Kickstarter.

What, what level of product? I mean, so it’s a buyer, so everybody that is on Kickstarter, I, I don’t know what is now, but at the time it was, I think there was,

Track 1: oh,

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: um, I think 40 million people that, that may be an order magnitude wrong. I, I, I can’t remember. So those people were Kickstarter. Wannabe, that’s all they would sit as.

I love him when he said, sit in their mother’s basement with their underwear on the computer all day long, just going, what can I buy? Right? Because they have, they have nothing in, in their life to do besides beyond Kickstarter. Well, that’s not really true, but that was my, my way of saying, okay, that’s my audience.

That’s who I’m talking to. Someone who’s really into this well. And um, so at, at that, so I had to get into the mind of the Kickstarter and then what would in the Kickstarter individual, and then what would motivate him to buy. And so I learned those things. At least I felt like I learned those things. And then I had to, had to know what it would take to know with certainty that I was going to be successful.

Because you don’t do it if you’re not gonna be successful. At the time that I ran my Kickstarter program, um, the spoiler alert jumped to the end. I was very successful. I had five, uh, between it and Indiegogo, I raised little over half a million dollars. Wow. And at the time, people, I was only 1% ever. Um, let’s see what 1% ever break.

A hundred thousand dollars and 80% of them fail. And so, in other words, they can’t make their goal. And, and in the world of Kickstarter, if you say that you will do something and you’ll get the backing for that, then you have to do that. Or you will be, you’ll be merciless, crucified, mercilessly crucified on the Kickstarter platform and you.

And you should never do it. And so you had to. So I had to know with certainty when I launched the Kickstart program that um, I would make it and I did. And the reason I, I knew it was certainty is because I just created the, the realm of capturing data that would tell me that. So, so without ever having, I know this is gonna make a lot of people wince, but I I, I sold grill guns on the internet before I ever had one to see if people would buy it.

And so I didn’t, I wasn’t stealing anything from anybody because I would have to reply back to ’em that I don’t have any stock right now at this time and refund their money. But a person will tell you that they’ll do something and then they won’t. Because for many, many different reasons, you know, they feel uncomfortable, they wanna get out of this situation, whatever it is, you don’t know you’re gonna do something until you actually accomplish it.

And so there are an awful lot of people that do what I’m telling you right now on Kick, you know, on Kickstarter right now, or on, on the internet right now. That’s why sometimes you’ll buy stuff that you never get because they’re out there fishing for, uh, an opportunity to make something. But when I, when I knew the ratio of people who would say they would buy one to the ra, to the people that actually bought one, then I, then all I had to know is how many people would say they would buy one, you know?

And so I went to gun shows, you know, uh, Wannamaker Gun Show in Tulsa, Oklahoma, our. Let’s see. RLK, I think it’s RK Gun Show in Tulsa. I just, I was selling my prototypes. I was just saying, I’m gonna do a kickstart campaign, guys. Um, if you will buy this, I will make it. And so I had all kinds of people telling me they would buy it, and I knew they weren’t going to buy it.

Mm-hmm. But I knew the ratio people that I, I was able to get the, the pulse of the market that would actually buy something through that and then apply that against the people that actually did buy it through my other study. And I only had to do that for about two weeks before I refunded everybody’s money.

And I knew what the conversion rate was going to be, and then I had to find out how many, how I was gonna get those people. So I went to YouTube.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: By the way, what was the conversion rate?

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: Um, at the time it was 4%.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: That’s pretty high.

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: It was, it was really, and, and that actually bore out, and, and in a Kickstarter it was much higher than that, but online, 4% is really high online.

And, um, but on Kickstarter, because you are in a marketplace of people who are looking to buy something, it’s much higher than that. Yeah. If you get their interest and you get them pay attention, but on Kickstarter they won’t, they, no one’s gonna take that step forward. They have to see that it’s gonna be successful before they commit to it.

Track 1: Hmm.

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: So there’s a lot of strategy in that too. You know, you, you have to set a goal that you can achieve. And so my goal was I had to achieve, I, I knew I needed, um, $400,000. That was a minimum I had to have, but I couldn’t put that as a goal because everybody and their brother would know that nobody is ever gonna get $400,000.

You’re not gonna do it.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Yeah.

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: So my, my, why would I do that? My question for you?

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Yeah. So my question for you is, I mean, when you did your Kickstarter and it’s been quite successful, um, as part of the strategy, I know you mentioned that you really studied the page and you know how long the video is and all those things, but did you, once you created that page and you showcased your product, did you do any kind of outside marketing as well?

Or did you kind of just left it to organic Kickstarter audience to come and check it out and because your page was so compelling that you knew that a certain, you know, certain percentage of those are going to invest in it? No. Or did you kind of find a way to drive outside traffic to the page as well?

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: Very definitely drove outside traffic and so I. Um, that was the next piece. In order to know I was gonna be successful, I actually went to YouTubers and sent them my prototypes. Um, there are several videos that were done back then, and I could tell by the, by the influencer’s audience and the people that replied back to him.

So somebody is, one guy would be, his name is Roy Cooks. Um, Troy Smith. He used to be on, on, uh, YouTube and life has changed for him. He’s doing other things now. But, um, he did a great video and, um, boy, that’s another story I could talk about for an hour, you know, on doing that. So I, you have to drive traffic to the website and, which is really interesting because if you, if again, if you study Kickstarter, I.

They, they demand, not demand. Uh, they expect that all of the Kickstarter participants will be Kickstarter, uh, players. But in fact, over 50% of the people who, who pledged to support the grill gun when it came out had never been on Kickstarter before, which was a, a testimony to the fact that I, I was successful because what, what I had to do is build a groundswell of enthusiasm.

So I, I knew I was gonna, I had to run for a short period of time. You had to get in on it. So it had to be 30 days. Well, I ran mine for 40 because I wanted to make sure I had all, every opportunity to collect the last little bit before I, uh, brought the, the, uh, campaign down. And, um, I drove from all of my outside influence to Kickstarter.

So I collected names. All of the people at the gun shows that I went to, people that wrote to me from the, um, um, what do you call it? The, the videos that were being put out there, um, sharing my information about it so that they reach out to me and say, I’d support a Kickstarter campaign. I, I got on the, a i, I went to email.

I had to get a platform where I could, you know, not be shut down for, um, what do you call it? Um, blowing up email marketing, you know? Mm-hmm. It wasn’t nearly as stringent, that stringent as it is now. But I had to come up with a way to be, to tell everybody, okay, the campaign’s starting and go. That sort of thing.

So within three days, I’d set my, my criteria was 65,000. Not 400,000 that I needed, because I knew if I got 65,000 in three days, that I would make 400. I just knew that. And, and again, it’s followed the data. And so because of all the work that I did in three days, and because of all the work that I did prepare myself for the Kickstarter launch, and by far the most Im impressive.

Um, piece of that was a, a fellow named, uh, GGA, who runs a Suvy channel called Vid Everything. And, uh, I sent him a prototype, developed a friendship with him. He loved it. He created a, a really great YouTube video. We coordinated, um, the launch of my campaign and his release of his video. And in three days time, I had, I had blown right past my $65,000.

And now all the people that are normal kickstart people. They said, Ooh, I’m wanting in on this because it’s gonna make,

Track 1: Hmm.

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: Well, if I had only made $65,000, all I was exposed to is the credit card, um, charges for people, you know, that I would be liable for. And I, I could in the campaign, ’cause I’d know, I, I would never take in their six, I couldn’t take the 65,000 if I couldn’t make it.

I knew I had to have 400. Well, I got there, you know, I, I, because again, I was just driven to make sure that I understood what it was gonna take. And then when I, at three days in, I knew I was gonna make it so I didn’t worry about it anymore. And I was on to worrying about, now how is it gonna move from Kickstarter over to Indigogo?

So I guess the kickstart campaign that ended at 400 and 420,000 or something like that. And Indigogo carried another 125,000. So in around. $550,000, which was enough to get into production actually, to get the tooling, get the parts, get the products built, get ’em shipped to me, and start handing out grill guns and then going into retail sales of them.

So that’s, that’s how I did it. And by mind you, at the, when I did that, I did that to prove that there was a market and prove what people would pay for that. And so then the investors that I had been talking to that said, well, you know, I wouldn’t be willing to support this because you know who would buy it.

They could see who would buy it. They could see what they would pay. And now it was easy to get investment so that I could, um, so that I could keep on going past that, you know, half a million dollar, um,

Track 1: yeah.

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: Insert, you know, insertion in order to be able to make the project take all

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: No, I, so, there you

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: go.

It, it was a long story.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: No, I think, uh, you took a, you took a very methodical approach and, uh, and I think that’s the kind of, that’s the level of commitment and effort is required to even come close to be becoming or making your project successful. I think in any entrepreneurship approach, if you are really just taking like, uh, some sort of a quick shortcut, right?

That it’s not, that’s not, I mean, it, it’s very difficult and especially for the kind of product that you are doing. I think there wasn’t really a different path. Um. I guess my question, next question for you would be, from a manufacturing perspective, when you approached, like I am assuming that you kind of costed it beforehand, um, oh yeah.

What was the biggest cost? I mean, number one, how did you find a manufacturer? Was it in the US And number two, I’m assuming the biggest cost to build this was the tooling itself. Um, can you talk a little bit about that? Um, and, you know, what were the co the upfront costs? Were there any like minimum order quantity issues?

Uh, at the beginning?

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: So, um, I actually knew people again from my product development for other, other companies before I started this that I could call in different countries. ’cause I had been doing work with them. And um, it ended up that I tried to have it made in the United States. I tried, uh, I dealt with several different.

Manufacturers and I, I knew what the cost had to be, but I couldn’t get there. And so I tried having it made in, um, don’t need to belabor everything. I ended up in, uh, China. And so I connected with a friend who knew a friend who I called and was able to actually travel to China with somebody who could speak Chinese and meet a company that would make the grill gun for me because I could design, um, I, they would do what I wanted.

It wasn’t like I went to a torch manufacturer in China and said, here, make one that looks like a gun, because the, the, how do I say this? Um. The ethics in, in China are different than here they are here in the United States. And I didn’t wanna see my product being sold by somebody else. So I I really, uh, not meaning to slam any, anybody in, in China, I’m just saying that they, the reason that they, they copy things and make them is because that they really don’t know why not.

It’s just the way, well, of course you do it. If you can make it and I can make it, then we both make it and then we win on the, on the field of, of, um, the sales. Well, when you don’t have all the development that goes into it and you just, you know, borrow somebody else’s intellectual property. I mean, you’re not, it’s not a level fail playing field.

And so I, I needed to keep it under wraps with somebody who I could trust. And so I went over and I, I met a man and I, uh, liked him, liked his company. He was willing to do it. I taught him how to do it. Um, and then we were able to keep that under wraps for a while before people figured out who was making it.

And, um, and then I started seeing other competitors. You, you know, you take a, a new idea and you develop it. If it’s successful, like the grill gun was, then you’re gonna have competition because people are gonna copy it. And so it was an entirely invented market that I created. And now there are lots of other players that are in it that are considerably less expensive.

I own ’em all. I, I, I buy everyone that shows up out there and they’re all, they’re all garbage because they don’t understand what it takes to make a high quality torch. And so those secrets are not let out. And you, you think you can duplicate something, but if you don’t understand what you’re looking for, then you know, a manufacturing shortcut here and a cost savings there, um, you don’t end up with the same thing.

But still, yet, they sell products. And the reason they sell ’em is because unless you hold a grill gun in your right hand and, and the competitors piece of garbage in your left, you really don’t know. And the competitor can say, so I will, I will say my product has 400,000 BTU because I can demonstrate that, but someone else will say, my product has 700,000 B two because it’s a bigger number.

Track 1: Hmm.

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: So it’s, it’s really not true. It’s all about, it’s all about getting. Someone to buy your product and if, if he can do it, so can I. So that’s, I, I think I might have lost track of the thread where I was as far as your question. So

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: no, I think, no, I think it’s, uh, you, you answered it. I, I guess my question, uh, what I’m curious about is, um, you were not, um, like the copycats that are coming up, um, are they not, I’m, I’m assuming they’re not infringing upon the patterns that you have or maybe you’re not inclined to, uh, go after them to enforce it.

Um, well, in

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: the United States, uh, to, uh, prosecute a patent is very expensive. And so, um, and that doesn’t mean, that doesn’t mean that they aren’t infringing, but it just means that at the point where the grill gun is, has enough sales out there. They’ve sold enough product out there. I, I know who they are.

In fact, I met one of them at the National Hardware Show in Las Vegas a few weeks ago. They will, they’re ultimately going to have to pay for this, this, um, you know, stealing of the intellectual property. And because I do have the patent and, and mostly the reason for having a patent really is, is to own the intellectual property so that if you ever end up selling the company, that the person that’s buying it presumably has the deep pockets to, uh, protect the, their intellectual property.

And so if you don’t have the intellectual property, then you might be infringing on somebody else. Or furthermore, someone could come along and patent what you did and prevent you from, um, being able to make your own product. So the. It’s a very expensive process, and prosecuting patents are expensive. And, um, I don’t want to give anybody a false solution that you, you need to wait on the patent to get the product out.

That’s a fool’s game. You, if you have a product you wanna make you, you build it, you make it, you know, people are gonna cop you. When you run faster, you jump higher and you, you’re onto the next thing because you can’t protect yourself. The patent does nothing to protect you. Unless, like I said, you’re a really big company that has intellectual property that can, you know, the sales volume are high enough that, you know, the several million dollars that it takes to prosecute, um, a patent infringement, that’s just chump change, you know?

And, and that’s not where the grill gun is. Yeah, it’s not, it’s not chump change for me. So.

Track 1: Yeah.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: By the way, uh, we are at 7:00 PM Do you have, uh, another 10, 15 minutes to go, go, or, um, yes, I do. Okay. Okay. So let me ask you one question. So, I mean, it’s, to me, it seems like you’ve spent so much time and effort, and maybe it was a passion project for you, um, but there was a significant amount of, uh, effort that went, went into bringing this product to market, and now you have copycats and so forth.

Who are, you know, I guess taking part of the market share, um, from a margin perspective. Do you think that you’ve kind of made, uh, your return on all the investment of effort that went into this? I mean, part of it probably was a learning experience for you. Part of it was, you know, uh, just personal satisfaction of creating something new.

But do you think that at the end. Uh, where you are right now? Is it, like, from a business perspective, was it like a worthwhile endeavor to create this, the, this whole product and business?

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: Oh, yeah. So I, I was able to buy the investors that then reinvested, you know, that invested after it was success, successful Kickstarters able to buy them out.

And a year after I started this, it, it, it’s because if you were to go to Google and just Google Grow Blazer, you would, you would read, I think I probably have over 700, um, five star reviews from people who love not only the product, but the customer service. So that’s a, that’s a compelling reason in this world where you can’t even get someone in customer service on the phone and everything is made, uh, disposable and throw it away.

That to put out the kind of money that it takes to buy a grill gun. You wanna know that the company’s there to stand behind you. And that’s, that’s what I, that was my company’s core focus is to, um, support the customer. And that means supported in sales. So I’ve been direct to consumer all of this time, and I’m moving aggressively into brick and mortar arena right now because it’s much, much harder for, uh, copycats to move into the retail market simply because, um, they, they’ve given away all a margin.

Um, a retailer needs, you know, standard margin. Uh, he’ll need 40 points if you got any distribution, he wants another 15. So you do all this work and you give all the money away because if it’s on a retail store’s shelf, they have to make money with it and people are gonna damage it and they’re gonna return it.

And just all the aspects of business. Included, makes it very expensive to have something on the retail shelf. And so you can’t, the copycats, the, the cheap Chinese knockoffs, they’ll never be there. They won’t be on the shelf at so and so’s charcoal grill store. You know, the specialty markets, ACE hardware, uh, shields, bass Pro shops, they won’t be there because they basically prostituted themselves for the QuickBook and the, um, in the, uh, direct to consumer marketplace.

So it depends on what you want. If your goal is just to be direct to consumer online business, which is very much a, the big play for people who, um. Who wanna do that, but there still is the margin. The market is much bigger than the direct to consumer. I’ve been doing this for five years now, and every single day I, if I go to a show, I talk to people that have never heard of me before.

Well, how can that be? Well, if you’re not sitting on your sofa, two in the morning thumb and Facebook, or looking at Instagram, you’re not gonna know about me because that’s, that’s what you have to do to get social media, uh, eyeballs. Well, I personally don’t spend any time on social media, and most people I know don’t do that.

So how am I gonna see them? So the only way to really sell the product and make it a a household name or a staple is to actually be in retail stores. But you have to be careful about how you do that and what stores you go into, because. They won’t carry it if you don’t have a good product and a good reputation, which is what I built first, is a good product and a good reputation, and that follows me around.

So it’s making the introduction into the retail market much easier.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Yeah, I think you have solid fundamentals. You have the patents. I mean, you’re the first to market. You have a good story, you have the numbers. So I think that probably helps you quite a bit in, in getting into retail. Um, what is your, um, what is your kind of future vision for your business?

Uh, where do you see your, I mean, I think, I think, I know you’re, as you said, you know, you’re going in aggressively with retail, um, so you want to get the, this distributed and become a household name, but, uh, I mean, where do you see your business five years down the road?

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: Um, so anybody who doesn’t plan for the future and lets the future happen to ’em.

They’re, they’re making a mistake. So, but that doesn’t mean you don’t change your plans. You just have to march in the direction of a plan and see if you get there and then be ready to pivot if you don’t. So for the next two years, I’m really pushing very hard at, um, letting people know that would otherwise never know about it, the whole angle of getting it into retail stores.

And so that, so you won’t see anything new from Grow Blazer for a while because I really have to focus on introducing something that for me is five years old, you might say long in the tooth, but when. Only, you know, 80, 90,000 people know about it because they own one and they swear by them and they love them.

That’s only 80, 90,000 people, right. I sell to, I’ve sold to 52 countries. There are people all over the world that love grill guns. They just have to know about it. So, building the market in Europe, building, you know, I, I know what the sales volume is outside of the D us right now. Kind of a surprise.

You’re in, you’re in Canada, so you know, the political event right now, tariffs are, are something that I really have to try and navigate and how am I gonna manage this, uh, US tariffs. Um, I don’t know what that’ll do, but it’s just another curve ball drawn, thrown my way, so I have to figure that out. And so there’s no one to raise your hand and say, you know, how do I do this?

You. Again, just have to figure out what you’re doing. Ultimately, I may, I have plans for new products along the torch line because I can’t have been selling a torch for five years and not heard, uh, wishes that people had. So I have, and so I will, uh, introduce those things in, uh, in a couple of years. But as it is for right now, it’s really to take the grill gun as much as I possibly can into, um, the, the realm of a household name, you know, somebody for backyard grilling tailgating.

It’s just the most amazing, cool tool. If you, if you are a guy and you are between 35 and 55, you are my ideal and an outdoors man, you’re my ideal and, uh, likely buyer. So that’s the, that’s just the top of the bell curve. And so you really. All entrepreneurs know who your ideal and likely buyers are, focus on them.

And you’ll have spread on both sides of that. But you won’t be successful at all if you don’t know who you are selling to.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Oh, uh, yeah, definitely. Very, very true. Um, in every entrepreneur’s journey, there’s always, by the way, before I go there, I very quickly I want to ask you, um, your team. So it seems like you are kind of the big, you know, you, you’re out there selling, marketing, um, who, who else is in your team?

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: So I have, um, my son who started with me right out of high school and now he’s 23 and, um, three other full-time people and my wife in the business. And so we manage the, the marketing, the sales, the customer service, the, um, manufacturers, reps. So all aspects of the business. Um, good, responsible, loyal, um, people with high integrity.

That’s what I have.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Awesome. That’s that’s great because, um, yeah, I, I was wondering, um, but who does your, uh, social media, by the way? I mean, it looks pretty good. It seems like somebody’s taking these video. They look pretty good.

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: Yeah, well, I have one guy, well, I have two guys that are focused on my social media.

One guy creating the content and the other creating the distribution for it. So that’s a very expensive proposition. Friend. You know, social media, I mean, UGC is not the way to do it. You actually have to create your own if you’re gonna make it believable. And then that’s always just, you’re trying to guess at what’s gonna be successful.

What are people gonna like, what’s gonna get somebody’s attention. I.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: I mean, it’s high, it’s high quality production and storytelling, like, I mean, it, it’s, it’s pretty decent, I would say so. Yeah. I mean, if you’re spending money, I think mm-hmm. Yeah, it’s probably worth it.

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: Thank you. I’ll share that with him.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Um, if, uh, in every entrepreneur journey, there’s always mistakes made, lessons learned, failures, what has been kind of your, uh, big failure so far that, uh, that has been a learning experience for you? What can other entrepreneurs learn from your mistakes?

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: So what you said is normally true. Um, what I do is I react to something that I’ve done wrong so quickly that it, it doesn’t matter. So I did have one situation when I first released it where there was an O-ring that was out of spec, and, uh. They just got some, some, a batch of bad parts and, but it was, I say it was outta spec, it was on the low intolerance side of the O-ring.

So what it ended up happening was after nine months of sitting under compression in the, uh, in the, in the valve body where it was, it took a set and the set was not, I, I, I didn’t recognize that failure until the products had been out for nine months. So, I mean, the cycle time of actually getting the product, building it, shipping it, having it in people’s hands and having them use it, and then having the complaints come back started in 2020.

So that was in the, so it was in summer of 2020, I started having grogan’s that were leaking gas. And so I, um. I went into full court press of figuring out what was happening, what the problem was, how to resolve it, redesign a parts, make new parts, um, put out a, um, a national bulletin that says, if you have one of these, um, products, please get it back to me again.

Or, um, I’ll send you a video in the parts and you can replace it yourself. And I averted a, a real catastrophe without, you know, so I had to deal with that for a, probably the first year and a half. It ended, ended up being that there were, it was an exposure of a possible 10,000 units, but it only ended up being about 1500 units right off the bat that had a problem.

And I saw a. That’s about how many total, uh, uh, dribs and drabs. I’ll get a call from somebody who hadn’t used their grog gun in six years, you know, five years now, and they’ll say, oh, I haven’t used this for a while, and it leaks. Well, I’ll, I’ll solve that problem for ’em. So, um, it was recognizing a problem facing it, communicating to everybody immediately that there was a problem, because it was direct to consumer and I didn’t have retail outlets that were pushing the product.

I, I knew everybody. I mean, I had access to their emails and their phone numbers, and so I could get right to them. Now, people don’t read their email and, um, check their texts, so it took a long time to reach everybody. But if that was just hard to kind of deal with, uh, the backlash of having a recall, you know?

Yeah. Gosh. A brand new product out there and now you have a recall. Well, I got past that because I responded to it in a, um. Responsible way. Responsible way.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Yeah. That’s a big problem to have, especially like now if, if now you’re in retail distribution, if something like that happens, that could be a big, big trouble.

Um, yeah. I’m going to move on to our rapid fire segment. In this segment I’m going to ask you a few quick questions. You have to answer them maybe in a word or a sentence or so. Sure. So the first one is one book recommendation for entrepreneurs and why

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: A book called Traction by Gina Wickman. It drives a vision process, accountability.

It’s a notion of putting the right people in the right seats. It’s a really important entrepreneurial book,

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: an innovative product or idea in the current e-commerce retail or tech landscape that you feel excited about.

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: So I’m pretty myopic. I stay focused on what I’m doing. So, um, I really don’t have.

Anything on the rice and that excites me that somebody else is doing, I’m really too focused on what I’m doing.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Okay. That, that makes sense. A business or productivity tool or software that you would recommend or a productivity tip.

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: So read the book Traction and then implement the EOS system that it tells you about.

It’s, um, entrepreneur operating system. EOS is the acronym. Yeah. But it helps you structure your business and help you know that you are being successful at what you’re doing.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: I think somebody also had recommended this in the past. Is this a system where they help you to build the business for like exiting at the end, or maybe this is

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: different?

Um, no, not necessarily. It really is just. It’s the notion of what should you be doing to be successful in business and who should be doing that? And so it’s, if you don’t have the right people in the right places, that’s the, that’s the, you know, so I’m, I’m a, um, implementer and my son is a visionary.

You’ve gotta have both in the company. Now, obviously I’m a visionary too, but so I do, I do both ends of it. But he’s, he is, uh, he’s not as color as I am, and so he has great ideas and so I’m still in charge. So we don’t necessarily do all of his ideas, but if you don’t have the vision out there and you don’t lend credibility to that, and the people like you, you comment about my marketing efforts that are going out there, finding the right people, putting them in the right seats, and not having too many of them, and being able to stay on top of what your exposure and your expenses are.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Awesome. And maybe you’re going to skip this one, also, a startup or business that you think is currently doing great things besides yourself. Yeah. Ditto.

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: Right. I’ll just move on.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Okay. Uh, a peer entrepreneur or business person whom you look up to or someone who inspires you?

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: Well, there is a, a, a business coach that I met right off the bat to help me when I knew I wanted to do something.

Um, I reached out to a, a man named Clay Clark, and, uh, he assisted me in, uh, developing so much of what it was that I, um, what I did, I, it sounds like I know all of this stuff, but I had to learn it from somebody. And so he’s, he’s a business coach in the, uh, Tulsa area. Um, has a company called Tri 15. And, um, I really respect him and I appreciate all the work that he.

And did help me get my myopic focus on what do I need to do? Keep it in line.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Final question. Best business advice that you have ever received or you would give to other entrepreneurs?

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: So I haven’t been able to implement it yet, but uh, at the same time that I learned about the book Traction, I read a book called, see, it’s called 10 X is Easier Than two x, which is a book by Dan Sullivan, and I think it’s Benjamin Hardy.

Yes. And so it’s, it’s another angle on the whole notion of running a good business. Don’t chase after the stuff that anybody can do. Do what only you can do. So it’s easier to be to. To be 10 times as good as somebody. If you focus on what you can be and not play in the, in the battlefield of, you know,

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: commodity,

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: run the mill ideas with all kinds of people doing it, it’s just easier.

It’s, it’s same amount of work, but the, the growth is so much more possible.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Awesome. Yeah. There’s another book, I don’t know if you know Peter Thiel. Um, yes. He has written a book called Zero to One, which has kind of a similar idea. Read

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: that as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Well, um, Bob, thank you so much. Those were all the questions that I had today.

I know we went a little bit over, but, uh, really appreciate, I mean, you have a very, very interesting story. I think I’m quite inspired by the, um, by the, uh, very comprehensive approach that you’ve taken to building your business. I think it, uh, you know, that takes a little bit of time. Uh, but I think you did everything right, and, and so that definitely has a lot of value.

So, uh, because these days I think a lot of business advice is how can you test an idea quickly and figure out if it’s working or not working, you know, the whole lean startup approach. Uh, so it, uh, I mean, you, you still did most of it. I think you, you, you, you know, but I think, uh, uh, just to, just to build a product from scratch and, and, uh, doing everything, I think it’s pretty, pretty inspiring.

So thank you so much again, uh, for sharing your story. Uh, if anybody wants to, uh, check out your product, what’s, what’s the best way to do that?

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: Uh, grill blazer.com. Grill blazer, two word, one word grill blazer.com. And you can read an, you know, snippet of what I spent some time telling you in the about section.

But, uh. If you know somebody or you are that person that likes really cool stuff, yeah, you need to go there.

Sushant Misra of TrepTalks: Awesome. Well, Bob, thank you so much again for the, for your time, for the opportunity and uh, wish you all the very best.

Bob Healey of GrillBlazer: Thank you very much for your time too.